New NESes, ideas, development, etc

Now I feel that all my good ideas have been invalidated because someone beat me to the punch. :(
So you now have the chance to build on his work and make it even better. That building process has been a big part of NESing ever since I've been here.
 
As far as a 3D map and related distances and time to travel between each star, all of that was perfectly easy to comprehend.:)

The star system map is a bit confusing, and better distinguishing what is a moon to which planet would be nice(I noticed the double bar only on the second look through). Otherwise, the slots and related material I would think, become more clear by looking at the rules.

For planet based units, how detailed they may be really depends on how much activity you would want on the planets, Dis. For Pre-ChaNES, a successful space NES in my opinion despite issues with setting, only generic divisions for each planet were shown, with a military description, much like AFSNES, and quite honestly, they worked without a hitch, and military action seemed detailed and satisfactory.

Perhaps you're right - how much planet level conflict went down in that NES though?

Anything encouraging competition and conflict are a GO, especially if players start with overwhelmingly developed homeworlds.:)

One of the ways to incite conflict is having players start on rather crappy worlds (since they won't be homeworlds per say).

Limiting the total number of designs is necessary of course, but I'd really need to know more about designing ships from a list of components before commenting. Will you be limited on how many components you can use/have? How would that affect the size of the designs? Price? Are the components themselves built be a playable entity?

For the ship design I was planning on starting with a list of components, and players can assemble ships of X or less components (where X is dependent on Construction technology level, you'll be able to build slightly larger than X but that'll cost rather more than just the components). So a player would submit a form something like:

Ship Class: Wanderer Class Scout
Description (for the sprite and flavour): a simple long-range scout vessel built as a rugged cylinder. Dual role as repair and sensor support for main fleet.
Size: 8
-Burst Drive MkI (2) 5ex2. Allows inter-system travel, MkI tech requires 1 slots for every 4 slots of the jumping ship (rounded up).
-Fusion Drive Core (1) 5e. Allows basic interplanetary speed, fufills powerplant requirement. More fusion drives per ship would give greater IP speed
-Recyclers (1) 8e. Allows ship to travel for decades without restocking (opposed to standard 2 real-space turns a ship can go without degrading).
-Sensors (1) 4e. Allows mineral content of planet to be determined. +1 dodge to all ships in same region.
-Engineering bay (1) 1e. Ship can construct alpha-bases, repair self and other ships at rate of 1 per turn.
-Titanium Armour (1) 2e. +1 to armour rolls.Additional layers of armour cost progressively more.
-Basic CREW (1) 5e. +1 EM damage.

Total cost: 35e

This cost is roughly the same as a small city – ships will be expensive and are to be treasured in this NES ;). Other players will only know the size, IP speed, and description of the ship class unless you tell them (this will also keep the in-thread stats uncluttered). There won't be levels of damage, a ship will be 'fine', 'damaged' or dead. IP speed is only important in relation to other ships, if the opponents are faster the ship won't be able to retreat from combat or escape a system, or move from one orbit to another before they can react. As you can see defensively designed ships will have a bonus since they can use the Intersteller drive slot for weapons and armour. I'm currently thinking 5-6 player designs allowed with three generics (A jack of all trades cargo ship, an IP fighter and an IS Destroyer).

And in the second month of that year, the era of stale game mechanics came to an end with the return of the Dis...

Very nice. I have little of import to say besides wondering how you intend to manage 'jump' lanes in the realm of space combat. If two ships cross paths en route to opposite systems, would they have the opportunity to interact or not?

No need to get over excited - I might suddenly get bored again ;).

There are no 'lanes', the ship engages its drive on the edge of a system, vanishes into a massless singularity and reappears on the gravitational edge of the target system some years later having experienced zero subjective time elapsing. No chance to interact except around planets or interplanetary space. There will be a number of drive types that will make differences for ship design (one will be more efficent for carrier based fleet models, one favours energy research etc), but they will all function in the same real-space transcending manner.
 
Spoiler :


Map for a NES I might one day run, probably months from now.

The black dots are capital cities. I'm planning on only showing the capital cities for major powers.

The Xs are sites of rebellion (more will be added later).


These are the major events: the Confederacy secedes from the Union, and in the Battle of Washington, the White House is severely damaged. Pro-Confederate conspirators in Southern California convince General Albert Sidney Johnston to mutiny and secede. As the Union crumbles, President Lincoln agrees to a peace treaty to salvage what remains.

The Great War grinds on until the European powers burn out, France, Italy, Russia and the Ottoman Empire fall to revolts/revolution. Irish Republicans and Ghadar Revolutionaries result in . White Russia emerges as a protectorate of Japan due to Japan's intervention. Germany gains territory with peace treaties with Russia, France, and the England.



Notes: I'm considering having Russia exile criminals, anarchists and communists during the 1870s to Alaska, resulting in the discovery of gold by settlers, eventually causing the British to invade and annex Alaska. Perhaps causing the League of Three Emperors to be resurrected.
 
Redone starmap and correct distance chart, for actual NES use...

starmap.png


distancechart.png


Some distance might seem slightly off, thats due to rounding up travel times to the nearest integer. Aslo the Kaus-Gemstar link should be 1 rtaher than 0.

There are 22 systems total and Players will start somwhere in the Eastern Group of stars (Arrakis, Errai, Gemstar, Gris, Heze, Kaus, Minkar, and Zavi)
 
I agree. The star map is pretty awesome - although I question whether it is needlessly complicated for a game? From a mod's point of view, it does look like a lot of work to edit the map, etc. Or even build it from scratch.
If there was a Celestia-like program for the star charts to be worked on, it'd probably be easier (but a LOT of startup work). I can see how that 3D map, while impressive at first, would get quite irritating as the NES goes by - mostly because it isn't intuitive (i.e. it needs practice to interpret efficiently).

I decided to stick to the 2D map for the thingie I'm working on with the (very flippant) excuse that the 3D chart has been squished to 2D - representing distances or some crap like that. The real reason is because it's just less work for the mod, with little noticeable loss in player experience.
 
The 3D map is not going to get altered at any point and in fact I plan to never touch it again, its just a different way of visualising the movement chart to give players a better feel for the cluster. All player information will be found on the 2D system map (see the bottom of the last page times 22 rows).

Building it from scratch was a piece of cake, since the stars are placed by RNG, and the graph is an inbuilt function. I just had to plonk on the stars/names themselves and a colour background.

I picked 22 stars as that produces a combined system map that is roughly the same size as the standard big WT NES map (though tall rather than wide).
 
Fair enough, but having to refer to map and chart is still a pain in the arse. The jump maps that previous space NESes have used are much more intuitive and less effort to work through for plotting jump routes.
Like I said, bloody awesome effort, but I question how much it would add to the player experience.

EDIT: I'd be interested to know how you plot the maps computerised-ly though. Shoot me a PM :)
 
Well it is effectively still a network map, just a fully connected one where one can go anywhere given sufficent time - you want to go somewhere, you can go there with no need to plot a route. This means gameplay will be different as players can bypass blocked systems with ease, coordinate with allys across the map etc. If that will be better for gameplay is something to find out, but it'll certainly be different.
 
Perhaps you're right - how much planet level conflict went down in that NES though?

Although I actively followed Pre-ChaNES for more than a year, I only was around for 2 updates, and only played in the NES in the last turn, and while I read a good portion of the thread, I wouldn't be the best person to ask, as compared to Lory Iggy, who played a superpower for most of the NES, or Thlayli, who was the cause of the only notable conflict outside of Earth, a rebellion to be specific. There was many very very lengthy and detailed discussions at the end of thread once the death of thread became apparent, which could be of possible assistance as well.

Your ship design and component rules are great, as is the new map.:goodjob:
 
I'd advise using a different font to put the names in on the map itself. I can't read the current one for crap.
 
Yeah, something tells me fake-Cyrillic is not going to be understood by the majority of your potential audience.
 
Inpuning the NESing collective there NK? Whilst I agree the map names are hard to parse, I assumed it wouldn't be hard to match them to the names on the distance chart (and made the names distinct for that very reason).

Anyway hows this for some economy stats:

Super simple explanation of the economy mechanics

You have population that lives in habitats, Habitats come in size from Alpha to Zeta, and each have a set population limit after which you need to upgrade the habitat if you want the population to continue growing. You can ugrade the Habitat at any time though. Each world has a number of regions that can take one habitat apiece, you can also build habitats in orbit around the star. Building and upgrading habitats has costs based on the conditions of the planet, ranging from free on terracompatible worlds with biospheres and breathable atmospheres, to hugely expensive on molten super Jovians. Each year you have a base 50% chance of adding a new population point in a habitat with empty space, which is modified by various factors. Each population point produces 1e and 1s a turn, these are economic and scientific capital respectively. You spend e to build things and on your upkeep, and s to research technologies, develop prototypes and find out various things. You can also spend e to move population round a system or onto colony ships.

Habitats gain unhappiness at their maximum size limit, and gain extra unhappy for various other reasons, you can spend 2e or 2s per year to assuage 1 unhappy.

Within a system e is freely movable between Habitats, but cannot be shared between systems till a trade route is established, and even then only works at 1/4 efficency.

Habitat Size

Alpha: 0-1 (a base) doesn't need food, only 1 per world allowed
Beta: 4 (a settlement)
Gamma: 10 (a city) +1s inherent bonus
Delta: 15 (a large city) +1e 2s inherent bonus
Epsilon: 20 (a very large city) +2e 4s inherent bonus
Zeta: 30 (a megalopolis) +4e 8s inherent bonus

As a system a hard cap on population is imposed by the amount of food available, the total number of population cannot exceed the amount of f. Each population point consumes 1f a turn.

There are a number of facilities you can build in each habitat that modify the production of e and s:
-A Factory doubles the amount of e and halves the amount of s this Habitat will produce, more advanced Factories are available later in the game. Factories require Gamma or larger Habitats.
-A Mine adds 10e but reduces reproduction rate by 50%. If your system holdings include a mine on a world with metals and a world with volatiles you get +25% to e production in that system. A rare earths, heavy metals or exotic gases mine adds +25% e to all systems connected by trade routes. More advanced mines are available later in the game. Mines require Beta or larger Habitats. Habitats can only be built in space if you have a mine on a planet with metals within the system.
-A Farm cannot be built in a habitat that has a mine or a factory. Farms produce 5f as baseline, which is modified by technology and their planetary environment. Farms on dry worlds or in space get +5f if you have a volatiles mine within the system. Destruction of you farms by random events or enemy action will cause population crashes. Farms require Beta or larger Habitats.
-A University adds 100% s and reduces e by a quarter. Universities require Gamma or larger Habitats.
-A Research Centre gives you +200% s from a Hab towards a particular research field, and you can only build 1 for each of the fields. Building them in different environments gives bonuses (Construction gets a boost in a low grav world etc). Research Centres require Beta or larger Habitats except for the Social RC, which needs an Epsilon Habitat.
-Cultural Centres reduce the unhappiness in Habitats by X where X is the amount spend in their construction. You can describe the function of a cultural centre yourself, or ease its construction with a story.
-Shipyards allow you to build ships in orbit around that world.
Various other buildings (15 including the 7 here) will be revealed at higher technology levels

Facilities and habitats will show on the system map, the stats page will only give a system summary for that player:

Steve
The Steve-ites
Bunda: 15p/15f 17e 34s: [Defence Fleet; Steve-class Fighter x 4]
Duhr: 1p/0f 1e 1s: [Colony Ship]

As you can see there are three causes of scarcity (something that Pre=ChaNES failed massively on), with varying levels of importance: a) Terra-class worlds, which will occur at a rate less than every other system provide tremendious opportunites for population growth and intellectual development, b) rare resource types, that give a significant bonus to the entity that mines them, and c) Access to the metals and volalites within a system in order to do various things. Since the rest of the galaxy is more than 20 years turnaround time from this cluster, a no return on investment within an individual lifetime could be gained from travelling beyond, and so it is valid to think of it as an economically closed system.
 
Inpuning the NESing collective there NK? Whilst I agree the map names are hard to parse, I assumed it wouldn't be hard to match them to the names on the distance chart (and made the names distinct for that very reason).

Oh, most definitely :rolleyes:

No, I just think it's a silly gimmick which does more to reduce readability than to make your map look "cool" or whatever. No, Arial or Times New Roman doesn't look very "Space-y", but it makes a lot more sense for an NES.

Of course, it confused me more than it might some people, because I spent half a minute translating the Cyrillic properly in my head and then trying to find those names in the chart's list...

But yeah, anything that makes a player check twice for information is probably unnecessarily complex, IMHO.
 
I tried to read it as if it were serious Cyrillic. That was a little confusing, and I don't know how it helps the map in any way.
 
Oh, most definitely :rolleyes:

No, I just think it's a silly gimmick which does more to reduce readability than to make your map look "cool" or whatever. No, Arial or Times New Roman doesn't look very "Space-y", but it makes a lot more sense for an NES.

Of course, it confused me more than it might some people, because I spent half a minute translating the Cyrillic properly in my head and then trying to find those names in the chart's list...

But yeah, anything that makes a player check twice for information is probably unnecessarily complex, IMHO.
He's right. You should always try to reduce the barriers between the game and the players, not increase them unnecessarily.
 
I don't like to have to turn my head to the side AND read something that looks like Greek. But so far that is my only complaint. It is a large one though. I seriously can't read anything in that horrible font.
 
Okay here is the comprehensive list of world feature tags, if people have any more suggestions or think its too many:

Gases
Thin Atmosphere: Default world have no atmosphere. Thin atmosphere makes worlds somewhat more liveable (cheaper habs, more innate s), and can be ungraded to standard atmosphere with high levels of Materials and Propulsion tech. High levels of Biotech will allow your culture to treat thin atmospheres as Standard Atmospheres
Standard Atmosphere: Earth density atmosphere, makes the world much more liveable.
Dense Atmosphere: Much denser than earth, makes the world less liveable, can be ungraded to Standard with high levels of Materials and Propulsion tech, relatively low levels of biotech allow your culture to ignore the negative effects.
Panthalassic: This world is completely covered in oceans, making habs more expensive by increase science and food production. Must exist in combination with Standard Atmosphere, Dense Atmosphere, or Icy Surface. World produces Volatiles. Can be removed with extensive industrial operations.

Gas Giant: A gas giant of size from Saturn to smallest. Habitats are extremely expensive, but occasionally necessary if no other volatiles sources are available.
Jovian: A gas giant of Jupiter size and up, includes super large rocky worlds that have migrated close to their sun. Hugely expensive Habitats, but again necessary if no other volatiles or metals are available.

Atmosphere
Poisonous: The biosphere on this world is dangerous to earth-life, increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with medium levels of biotech.
Very Poisonous: The biosphere on this world is extremely dangerous to earth-life, increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with high levels of biotech. Often co-located with exotic biochemicals.

Toxic: The atmospheric mix on this world is dangerous to earth-life, increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with medium levels of Materials.
Very Toxic: The atmospheric mix on this world is very dangerous to earth-life, increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with high levels of Materials. Often co-located with exotic gases.

Storms: The atmospheric violence on this world is dangerous to earth-life, increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with medium levels of construction and propulsion.
Large Storms: The atmospheric violence on this world is very dangerous to earth-life, increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with high levels of construction and propulsion.

Physical Environment

High Radiation: The radiative environment on this world is hazardous to earth life, greatly increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with medium levels of energy or biotech.
Very High Radiation:The radiative environment on this world is extremely hazardous to earth life, greatly increasing habitat costs to protect the population. Can be removed or adapted to with high levels of energy.

Low Gravity: This world has low gravity, reducing habitat costs and spaceship production rates by 10%. Much harder to terraform though, until very high levels of construction.
High Gravity: This world has low gravity, high gravity increasing habitat costs and making spaceship production slower by 50%. Cannot be removed. This is for rocky worlds, Jovians and Gas Giants have high gravity by default.

Hot: Its hot! Habitats are more expensive, can be alleviated with low levels of energy, medium levels of biotech and/or Construction.
Very Hot:Its very hot! Habitats are more expensive, can be alleviated with high levels of energy and/or Construction.

Cold: Its cold! Habitats are more expensive, can be alleviated with very low levels of energy and/or Construction or medium levels of biotech.
Very Cold: Its cold! Habitats are more expensive, can be alleviated with low levels of energy and/or Construction or high levels of biotech.

Icy Surface: The surface is made of Ice, can only exist with cold or very cold. Habitats are more expensive. World produces volatiles. If cold traits are removed will convert to a Panthalassic.

Molten Surface: If combined with Very Hot means lava, Hot means sulphuric outbursts, Cold is hydrocarbon slush, and very cold is ammonia and ice. Either way Habitats are much more expensive, and this feature cannot be removed. Mines produce vastly more material.

Biosphere
Weak Carbon Biosphere: A carbon based biosphere with a tenuous grip on existence. Makes the world more liveable for earth-life (unless its poisonous), allowing Habitats to automatically upgrade and farms to produce more food. Can collapse into lifelessness with damage or industrial accidents, or upgraded to a strong biosphere with enough biotech knowledge.
Strong Carbon Biosphere: A carbon based biosphere with a firm grip on existence. Makes the world more liveable for earth-life (unless its poisonous), allowing Habitats to automatically upgrade and farms to produce much more food. Can collapse into WCB with damage or industrial accidents, or upgraded to a Gaian biosphere with enough biotech knowledge.
Gaian Carbon Biosphere: A verdant paradise of a world. Makes the world more liveable for earth-life (unless its poisonous), allowing Habitats to automatically upgrade and make more science and farms to produce much more food.
Non-carbon Biosphere: Something weird, each one will be described in detail in updates. Makes the world less liveable for earth-life, but sufficient biotech and materials knowledge can allow you to treat it as a weak carbon biosphere, or wipe it out all together and start adding earth life. May have exotic biochemicals.
Tough non-carbon Biosphere: This biosphere is taking no prisoners, if you want to start terraforming this world best nuke it from orbit (the only way to be sure). Habitats are obviously much more expensive, may have exotic biochemicals.
 
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