New US tariffs kick in on $16 billion of Chinese goods

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

Clarifying.

Whether it's Fords or fishsticks or financial services, we measure economies by production. That means that we are on a perpetual treadmill to produce more. Maybe that looks like just making more fishsticks, or maybe it looks like shifting people from producing fishsticks into producing the more valuable financial services, but the bottom line is more more more. And the trick is that no one wants giant heaps of fishsticks or financial services just piled up and rusting away, so production is capped by consumption. For a while the US population having been trained to believe that we somehow deserved to consume half of what the world produced and also to believe that we were somehow still suffering from what we lacked was sufficient to blow the cap off for the entire world. But for China to continue to grow their production at the rate they want they are going to have to tap into the consumption power of their own two billion person market.

 

[Silurian]

Whether it's Fords or fishsticks or financial services, we measure economies by production.

We need to measure wealth of countries by what they have, rather than what they produced in the last year.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We need to measure wealth of countries by what they have, rather than what they produced in the last year.

Perhaps we need to, but in fact we don't.

 

[Zelig]

There are a bunch of such measurements:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_wealth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_financial_assets_per_capita

 

[El_Machinae]

I often have to bust out "wealth per capita", because any discussion of government deficits really needs to get their eye on the actual ball.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I always thought these were cool.

I don't think it's a popular opinion.

These were better
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_house

 

[Farm Boy]

Those are neat! I think round walls would drive me mad, like it said, it was modeled off a grain silo.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Not for long. China is following the same blueprint for economic development that the US followed. Their next step is to tap into the potential of their vast domestic market. Once the constant marketing pressure establishes as fact that people simply must have more and more of everything in order to be seen as respectable their propensity for saving will fade rapidly.

Chinas banking regulations are even looser then the US, with large amount of loans sub prime type thanks to extremely unregulated lending as well as shady fiancial loan corporations
There is a real risk of the same type of collapse that the US went through, but unlike the US China has savings so when the crash comes it will result in economic stagnation similar to Japan.
Chinese need to reform there banking industry to prevent this from happening

And from what I gathered the Chinese switching from export to consumption economy as well as investing into future tech is the correct move.
The Chinese want to secure hi-tech high value manufactoring and not crappying low skilled manufactoring jobs that for some reason America wants back

 

[Timsup2nothin]

And from what I gathered the Chinese switching from export to consumption economy as well as investing into future tech is the correct move.
The Chinese want to secure hi-tech high value manufactoring and not crappying low skilled manufactoring jobs that for some reason America wants back

Yeah, they are shifting low end manufacturing into the western hemisphere at a very rapid clip. My last trip to Mexico the number of businesses going up on foundations of Chinese investment was impressive, and all those businesses will be running imported Chinese machinery. The value ceiling on my investments in Belize is supported by ongoing Chinese investment in infrastructure there.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Dose Trump even know what this entire trade war is about ? Because dropping Chinese restriction will simply accelerate US corporations moving into China. That will simply increase the trade deficet

Then there is of course retailtory tarriffs imposed by China, this time nearly everything except Oil and gas will be hit. Trump administration dosnt have any plans in place and seems to be counting of another round of taxs cuts. The Fed is busy raising interest rates while Republicans are busy spending

If were lucky Trump will accelerate the trade wars with other countries, the silver lining is that all of this is going to fall on Republican states good and hard.

Trump Hits China With Tariffs on $200 Billion in Goods, Escalating Trade War

President Trump, emboldened by America’s economic strength and China’s economic slowdown, escalated his trade war with Beijing on Monday, saying the United States would impose tariffs on $200 billion worth of goods and was prepared to tax all imports.

Mr. Trump, in a statement released late Monday, showed no sign of backing down from the type of full-blown trade war between the world’s two largest economies that has rattled financial markets, saying he was prepared to “immediately” place tariffs on another $267 billion worth of imports “if China takes retaliatory action against our farmers or other industries.”

The tariffs on $200 billion worth of products comes on top of the $50 billion worth already taxed earlier this year, meaning nearly half of all Chinese imports into the United States will soon face levies. The next wave of tariffs, which are scheduled to go into effect on Sept. 24, will start at 10 percent before climbing to 25 percent on Jan. 1. The timing of the staggered increase will partially reduce the toll of price increases for holiday shoppers buying Chinese imports in the coming months.

White House officials said on Monday that China could win relief from the tariffs by acceding to the administration’s trade demands, including allowing American companies greater access to the China market and dropping its requirement that American companies hand over valuable technology to Chinese partners.

“It will be a lot of money coming into the coffers of the United States of America. A lot of money coming in,” Mr. Trump said during remarks at the White House on Monday. He added that the United States cannot tolerate the trade gap between what it exports to China and what it imports from that country.

“The Chinese are livid and drafting their own battle plan — they won’t take this sitting down,” said James Zimmerman, a longtime lawyer in Beijing and the former four-time chairman of the American Chamber of Commerce there.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/17/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Trade wars are easy, and Trump is clearly winning bigly. Fake news.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I wonder what it will do to Wal-Mart prices?

 

[Hrothbern]

In the second half of the 19th century the US had 50% tariffs in place to protect the building up of her own manufacturing industry from cheap imports from the UK.
And that worked like a charm.
Today is a different world ofc, but the US has the domestic scale size to pull off a higher degree of isolation than the current trend without losing imo as such that much GDP.
It is I think more the abrupt way Trump uses AND my doubt that domestic investments will happen (fast enough) at an adequate rate by the business and investors, that will hurt the US.
The unreliability of Trump and the question whether this change in trade strategy will really continue after Trump, will impact the sustainability of the domestic investment opportunities and therefore the willingness to invest.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In the second half of the 19th century the US had 50% tariffs in place to protect the building up of her own manufacturing industry from cheap imports from the UK.
And that worked like a charm.
Today is a different world ofc, but the US has the domestic scale size to pull off a higher degree of isolation than the current trend without losing imo as such that much GDP.
It is I think more the abrupt way Trump uses AND my doubt that domestic investments will happen (fast enough) at an adequate rate by the business and investors, that will hurt the US.
The unreliability of Trump and the question whether this change in trade strategy will really continue after Trump, will impact the sustainability of the domestic investment opportunities and therefore the willingness to invest.

The unpredictability makes investing in the US a really bad risk, IMO. I lobbied hard, and successfully, to move all my family's assets out of the US except one piece of very cheap land that is a fifty year gamble at best and has no practical way to pull the plug.

That aside, the tariffs of the 19th century protected the growth of industries that were at the time the cutting edge. The UK was ahead in those industries even though the US had surpassed them in older, established industries through sheer size. Similarly, while Trump whines that China, through sheer size, has surpassed us in many established industries the US is in the same position the UK held then; dominating in the currently developing industries. China needed to institute a similar tariff structure to that used by the US back then, and we have provided them with the golden opportunity.

 

[Silurian]

So not surprisingly China is responding.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I wonder what it will do to Wal-Mart prices?

10% increase in prices on everything made in Gyna, then another 15% price increase on Jan 1 next year. That or all the final packing will be done just across the border in Vietnam with a made in Vietnam stamp on them.
The US will eventually close that loop hole,but by then US will be in a recession / depression at which point it wont really matter

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: The new tariffs thread has been merged here, as we don't need two threads on exactly the same topic. Thank you.

 

[Birdjaguar]

10% increase in prices on everything made in Gyna, then another 15% price increase on Jan 1 next year. That or all the final packing will be done just across the border in Vietnam with a made in Vietnam stamp on them.
The US will eventually close that loop hole,but by then US will be in a recession / depression at which point it wont really matter

Trump's base shops at Wal-Mart so they will feel the pain. China is already moving it's lost cost production to Vietnam and India so the tariffs will only accelerate that transition. China is making the same move Japan did decades ago. Another losing move by the Donald.

 

[El_Machinae]

If you think that the US will be in recession by early 2019, you're not paying attention. He's running 3% deficits. Trickle-down, sure, but the dollar repatriation and wealth effect itself is generating more spending by people who think their stock portfolios have increased in value over the long run.

 

[rah]

If you think that the US will be in recession by early 2018,

Didn't early 2018 already happen?