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New Version - January 12th (1/12)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Seems logical. Religions that benefit from number of followers or number of cities following won't count on the cities that have just the pantheon, or worse, no religious majority. While pantheons that benefit every city will continue to benefit after the religion has been founded.
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Festivals, Beauty, Wisdom SPT, Commerce GPT, etc.
     
  3. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    It's not really logical. Pantheon is pantheon. If I believe in Spirit of the Deserts and then some great prophet comes and says SotD had a Son and his name was Brian (story unrelated) then I still believe in those SotD, right?
    In civ tems - let's take 3 cities and pantheon X and religion Y based on that pantheon:
    - 10 pop - 9 pop rel Y - pantheon works, ppl believe in pantheon and religion
    - 3 pop - 2 pop believe in pantheon X, 1 in religion Y - pantheon works;
    - 5 pop - 2 pop panth X, 2 pop religion Y, 1 undecided - no yields, despite 4 ppl actually believe in patheon X. This hardly makes sense, as 80% of the city believe in that pantheon.
     
  4. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Except the fact that religion is already glitchy enough as it is (As I recalled, it's so hard to fix those bugs because people are so rigid in their beliefs that they don't choose anything else until someone else choose a different belief that is bugged and then have them report it which they usually don't which is why the All UA Get Bonus Belief mod was never introduced by me, but that's a different topic for now), adding this neat fix might bug religion once more again.

    If we're talking logic, see religion as an official sub-sector of the religion and pantheon as that sub-sector of the same religion. (Sunnis and Shiites in a Sunni-majority country, Protestant and Catholics in a Protestant-majority country etc). Despite that you both have this same concept of belief, one is officially recognized and endorsed in that country, the other is not. (Unless it's one of them Free Religion country that doesn't exist in Civ 5)

    And what supports my logic is the (12-7) statement already.
    This works with your own pantheon and founded religion, so you're going to have those who may oppose this "hot and new religion" because the government telling them to try it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
  5. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Your example makes no sense from a mechanical perspective. The DLL does not, and will never, support a civ having more than one 'primary' religion. Once you make a religion your pantheon is obsoleted – in the vanilla DLL, this wasn't handled cleanly at all (some belief elements were pantheon-only, or enhancer-only, even if the pantheon/enhancer bools were not used). I corrected and standardized all of the logic so that anything can be any belief type. This necessitated logic that makes any belief which is accessed at the 'player level' looks at the founded->majority->holy city->pantheon religion (in order of preference). City-level beliefs look at majority as the primary (thus pantheons can persist through founding until the new faith takes over).

    G
     
  6. infidel88

    infidel88 Prince

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    I'm not saying you should mess with religion. It's fine for me. I would like to have more multicultured cities, so pagodas are actually useful, but thats an opinion. And I understand it's CiV issue not VP issue. Just wanted to point to tu_79 out that last case (5 pop - 2 pop panth X, 2 pop religion Y, 1 undecided - no yields), as lack of logic.
     
  7. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    But it is logical, from a mechanical point of view. If followers of your religion and pantheon are even, then the city doesn't have a majority. If no religion has more support than others, then the city is omnist and its rule is lay. You could argue that even in that case, a city could get a small bonus from every religion that has followers in the city, but it would be quite difficult to do with just modding tools.
     
  8. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    My quick take on these:

    1) I like the pantheon religious pressure change.
    2) Tourism changes are interesting, we will see.
    3) The building changes are alright, I like the wonder changes.
    4) Festivals: We have done this change, and almost immediately changed it for being underpowered. If you are going to nerf this one, it should be done on the culture or the gold (or both), but faith just makes it too lite on faith to be a good pantheon.
    5) Beauty: This is an interesting change. It creates this pantheon that is really good early game, and then becomes useless. However, its actually a time when you want someone elses religion to take over yours, so the low faith makes sense. I don't know if its balanced, but I like the new direction.
    6) Wisdom: I think this pantheon just got tanked. Science is significantly weaker than faith at the time when it counts (early in the game). This one was always a good one, but I think this will make it too weak.
    7) Clericalism: I like the idea here.
    8) Zealotry: I don't understand the change here.
     
  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    The bonus used to apply on tiles specifically - now it affects your total strategic pool, not tiles.

    G
     
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Honestly there isn't much logic to people believing in something causing most of the things they cause
    I think this pantheon is really good. Its like having spirit of the desert on every luxury tile. Sometimes they even give you 1 or 2 extra gold per turn. Once you have a little bit of gold you can buy all the other resources from them, it basically discounts the price by 2 which early on means paying 2 gold to get a luxury, 1 happiness, 1 faith and 2 culture. At 2 faith any civ with decent synergy became a religious powerhouse
     
    ElliotS likes this.
  11. aswipe

    aswipe Chieftain

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    Hi, I'm a newb and I'm posting in this thread because it seems to be the only active one. I'm playing with the mod directly in my DLC folder so I can get steam achievements and avoid the annoying mod menu. I keep getting my unit command menu disappearing and then I'm never able to get it back. Any solutions? Thanks...
     
  12. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Here's the problem with this statement, it makes the bold assumption that you can always trade every excess luxury with an AI for a new unique luxury. In an actual game this ranges from 'quite possible' to 'not very likely' depending on map-size, maptype and number of AI in the game. If you're playing smaller maps with no extra added civs your number of possible tradingpartners shrinks quite a bit, playing continents cuts that number in half and other map-types might reduce it even more. On top of that, these are only possible tradingpartners, you're quite likely to lose one of them to either constantly being at war with you or just hating your guts enough to refuse trading. It's also quite possible that you lose out on a possible trade-partnet by them expanding into 'your' starting area and connecting your 'monopoly-resource'.
     
  13. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    I've found that more often than not Festivals was the best pantheon. Every other game I played it was the pantheon I chose, regardless of civ or victory condition.

    It's crazy that it scaled better than everything but god-king, but also was among the best pantheons on the turns after you get it.

    Regardless of those points you made my personal experience, CrazyG's experience and actual tests run by Forsti in the pantheon tuning thread show a LOT of data that shows it was OP.
     
  14. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    The argument on whether festivals is op or not is best reserved for the tuning thread.

    Im arguing that this is the wrong nerf, pantheons are very sensitive to faith changes. Better to adjust the secondary yields than faith.
     
  15. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I'd rather it be a more risky founder than anything else, as that offsets the potency of the other bonuses.
     
  16. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    Has anyone noticed that if you have a unit in enemy territory during a war and then make peace, that instead of being ejected, your unit is stuck in place? I'm checking to see if it's my glitch, or something to report.
     
    saamohod, Legen and IcyAngel like this.
  17. Forsti

    Forsti Warlord

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    I haven't seen that but I've seen AI borders grow to a tile where my unit was standing and the unit didn't get ejected. I could still move as long as I moved away from the AI territory.
     
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  18. IcyAngel

    IcyAngel Prince

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    Yeah. The unit can move out only if it's on the border.
     
  19. bigcat88

    bigcat88 King

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    Someone tested new Zealotry? Cause in my last 2 games I have crazy number of resources, and I got +50% to resources from start(when enchanced only,so its seems a bug)
    In Industrial era, don't know what happens, but looks like I have +90/+120% to resources. Tomorrow in new game will see closer...
     
  20. Txurce

    Txurce Deity

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    Yeah, it's the same bug, then.
     

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