New Xbox basically kills off used games

[Arakhor]

Xbox Ones will be region-locked as well?? What is Microsoft thinking?

 

[kramerfan86]

To me the xbox has two major problems that have now backed it into a corner being bullied by sony: kinect and moving towards forced installation.

Kinect alone is the likely reason for the 100 dollar price difference. Problem with kinect though is microsoft knows a lot of its gamer audience simply doesnt care about it. So its put in this weird situation where it really wants kinect to be a big deal, but at the same time they cant really toss it into any of their core games. So its left to do silly things like letting you verbally turn your xbox on. The forced bundling is going to hurt them badly.

The move towards installation is a problem because that is likely the reason they have to do all this oppressive DRM nonsense since without it you can just install the full game and play without every owning the disc. The main benefit of being able to switch games without switching discs really isnt much of a selling point to counteract the DRM it forced them to toss on.

Since sony is doing neither of these things they can be cheaper, not require internet, and allow the used game/rental/borrowing market to continue as usual. Microsoft is going to get its clock cleaned this generation.

 

[illram]

Yeah I know, what I mean is that the 360 outsold the PS3 despite it being an inferior console because, inter alia, the PS3 was $50 more expensive. Now the PS4 is not only a better console but it's cheaper on launch by $50 and it's got better support for core gamers. So the circumstances under which the 360 outsold the PS3 by 10% simply don't exist now.

Indeed, I don't even think that Microsoft are looking to outsell the PS4 at all. I think they're looking to capture the high margin part of the market and lock them into the MS ecosphere, in the way that Apple have with basically all of their products. They don't care that the low margin customers and core gamers are going to Sony, because a large part of their strategy depends on selling high margin addon services (e.g. TV streaming) to the locked in, high value customers. They're not even creating a games console at all at this point; they rather want to create a complete end-to-end product line where you're using MS products on tablet, desktop, mobile, office and living room. I suspect that their focus on DRM in this new release is less of a sop to games publishers than it is a demonstration to TV, film, music media companies that MS is committed to providing a platform that protects digital products. When you look at the XB1 from MS's perspective, rather than from a gamers' perspective, it all makes perfect sense. I'm simply not Microsoft's target demographic here.

Totally agree. It's sort of a reverse of the PS3/Xbox 360 opening acts.

I think now that more and more people already have a Tivo, Roku, whatever-device, tying MS's entertainment device into their console (which they know will have high demand) is how they want to get into that market. That's their real target.

Since I am already far along in my own HTPC ecosystem at home, I will probably pass on the Xbox since I don't need all the bells and whistles.

 

[Zelig]

Yeah I know, what I mean is that the 360 outsold the PS3 despite it being an inferior console because, inter alia, the PS3 was $50 more expensive. Now the PS4 is not only a better console but it's cheaper on launch by $50 and it's got better support for core gamers. So the circumstances under which the 360 outsold the PS3 by 10% simply don't exist now.

Indeed, I don't even think that Microsoft are looking to outsell the PS4 at all. I think they're looking to capture the high margin part of the market and lock them into the MS ecosphere, in the way that Apple have with basically all of their products. They don't care that the low margin customers and core gamers are going to Sony, because a large part of their strategy depends on selling high margin addon services (e.g. TV streaming) to the locked in, high value customers. They're not even creating a games console at all at this point; they rather want to create a complete end-to-end product line where you're using MS products on tablet, desktop, mobile, office and living room. I suspect that their focus on DRM in this new release is less of a sop to games publishers than it is a demonstration to TV, film, music media companies that MS is committed to providing a platform that protects digital products. When you look at the XB1 from MS's perspective, rather than from a gamers' perspective, it all makes perfect sense. I'm simply not Microsoft's target demographic here.

I dunno, that makes sense abstractly, particularly given MS's direction lately, but if everything were to get released as is and stay like this for the rest of the product cycle, the XB1 won't get outsold like the PS3 did, it will get outsold like the original xbox did - that's not the kind of difference they'll be able to make up on margins.

I suspect they got caught off-guard by PS4 pricing, they can't drop their price immediately, or quickly enough to anger the early adopters, but bundling a bunch of games (or just include some really good games with their free xbox live free games deals) and then lowering price ~4 months after launch should be fine.

I don't really agree with the "not a game console" line - they had an actual media version of the XB1 under development that would have done only the media stuff without gaming, but scrapped it. As is, if you use it just for games, and have an internet connection, it's not particularly different than the PS4.

Unless they actually get around to introducing a Netflix-like streaming service that's better/cheaper than Netflix for xbox owners, "proving" anything to media companies is rather pointless - they've already got purchasable movies/tv and streaming music services.

I think now that more and more people already have a Tivo, Roku, whatever-device, tying MS's entertainment device into their console (which they know will have high demand) is how they want to get into that market. That's their real target.

Since I am already far along in my own HTPC ecosystem at home, I will probably pass on the Xbox since I don't need all the bells and whistles.

Tivo, Roku and whatever-device numbers are pathetic compared to consoles though. The PS3 is the top Netflix streaming device, closely followed by the other consoles, after which nothing else is even close.

And really, for anyone that has a console, all the hardware is there already, if the software is present to do TV stuff, what's the point of getting another box for the tv room?

To me the xbox has two major problems that have now backed it into a corner being bullied by sony: kinect and moving towards forced installation.

Kinect alone is the likely reason for the 100 dollar price difference. Problem with kinect though is microsoft knows a lot of its gamer audience simply doesnt care about it. So its put in this weird situation where it really wants kinect to be a big deal, but at the same time they cant really toss it into any of their core games. So its left to do silly things like letting you verbally turn your xbox on. The forced bundling is going to hurt them badly.

I don't get why so many people complain about Kinect, nobody complains about the Wii and Wii U gizmos.

The move towards installation is a problem because that is likely the reason they have to do all this oppressive DRM nonsense since without it you can just install the full game and play without every owning the disc. The main benefit of being able to switch games without switching discs really isnt much of a selling point to counteract the DRM it forced them to toss on.

Downloadable and installable games are awesome, I would never get any console where discs were required.

And playing games from discs is really a terrible usage mode, it just reminds me PC games in the 90s where you had to wait for crap to load from your CD drive between every level.

 

[tonberry]

I don't get why so many people complain about Kinect, nobody complains about the Wii and Wii U gizmos.

Downloadable and installable games are awesome, I would never get any console where discs were required.

And playing games from discs is really a terrible usage mode, it just reminds me PC games in the 90s where you had to wait for crap to load from your CD drive between every level.

That’s because, if you buy a Wii, you want the motion controller, it’s at the core of the gaming experience. On the other hand, many people who buy an Xbox don’t want Kinect, they’re not interested in motion gaming especially when it ruin what would be an interesting gameplay (Steel Battalion : Heavy Armor come to mind).

As for the disk medium, I do think that, in the future, everyone will download games and play without any physical media. But we’re not there yet. There is still too many people, in the US and around the world, who have poor internet connection and not enough money to buy all their games at full price which is what downlodable games implied.

 

[kramerfan86]

I don't get why so many people complain about Kinect, nobody complains about the Wii and Wii U gizmos.



Downloadable and installable games are awesome, I would never get any console where discs were required.

And playing games from discs is really a terrible usage mode, it just reminds me PC games in the 90s where you had to wait for crap to load from your CD drive between every level.

Downloadable should be an option, have it be like now where there is a digital store and discs. Having it where you sell discs but the only thing they do is install is a stupid half measure that has now created this DRM stupidity that is about to detonate badly on microsoft.

And people complain about kinect because microsoft keeps trying to pimp it out. If you want it fine, plenty of people though dont want to spend an extra hundred on a system for a gizmo that doesnt add much to what they are interested in. Playstation's move isnt drawing ire because sony isnt perpetually trying a pushy hard sell on it. If you want it is there, if you dont that's cool too.

 

[Zelig]

Downloadable is an option. How else to you propose to place downloadable and disc games on equal equal footing without limiting disc installs?

As someone who plans to only purchase digital copies, I don't want people who buy discs to have any advantages over me.

 

[kramerfan86]

Downloadable is an option. How else to you propose to place downloadable and disc games on equal equal footing without limiting disc installs?

As someone who plans to only purchase digital copies, I don't want people who buy discs to have any advantages over me.

Do it like old games, you can install, but you cant play unless the disc is in the system. It wont actually read anything from the disc so it wont slow down play, but it prevents you from just being able to let all your friends copy it minus irksome registration and checkins.

But ignoring that I dont really see why its the company's responsibility to make you feel better about your all digital choice by intentionally hamstringing hard copies. If you dont like the other side having a perceived advantage than join the other side.

 

[Zelig]

No, discs are stupid.

Can you imagine a world where you can't download smartphone apps, but instead you buy them on usb sticks, and need to plug them into your phone to use them? I don't care if other people do this, but I'll be damned if I want them to have any more usage rights than my downloaded apps.

Seriously, any situation where digital and disc copies have different usage rights is completely unacceptable and not reasonable. Should I be able to sell my used digital copies?

 

[Farm Boy]

This is why we can't have nice things. Those who buy crap things insist that my things be crap too. It's only fair!

 

[kramerfan86]

No, discs are stupid.

Can you imagine a world where you can't download smartphone apps, but instead you buy them on usb sticks, and need to plug them into your phone to use them? I don't care if other people do this, but I'll be damned if I want them to have any more usage rights than my downloaded apps.

Seriously, any situation where digital and disc copies have different usage rights is completely unacceptable and not reasonable. Should I be able to sell my used digital copies?

So you want to have an advantage in terms of convenience but then want to hamstring the advantage the hard copy side gets?

 

[Zelig]

Discs are just a method of getting your downloadable content quickly, without downloading it.

I really don't see how you can justify reselling discs if you don't allow for reselling used downloads.

So you want to have an advantage in terms of convenience but then want to hamstring the advantage the hard copy side gets?

Well convenience depends on how fast your internet connection is, otherwise discs and downloads should be identical.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Speaking of British imports, when's Season 3 of Sherlock starting? I heard they were making "The Sign of Four" into an episode so I got even more hyped than usual.

My sister, who is a huge fan, told me around December or January

 

[ParkCungHee]

How long before someone makes a thread
"Used games basically kills off New Xbox?"

 

[Arakhor]

My sister, who is a huge fan, told me around December or January

How do you expect to have Benedict Cumberbatch running around in his long black duffel coat if it's filmed in summer? Our summers may be uninspiring to say the least, but they're not that bad!

 

[Dachs]

How do you expect to have Benedict Cumberbatch running around in his long black duffel coat if it's filmed in summer? Our summers may be uninspiring to say the least, but they're not that bad!

The episodes started filming back in March of this year, although one scene from the first episode was filmed at the same time as Season 2 was, for obvious reasons.

 

[bhsup]

IT doesn't have seasons. TV shows that occasionally recur every few years whenever the production company decides "what the hell, let's make some more" do not merit having seasons assigned to them.

 

[innonimatu]

Discs are just a method of getting your downloadable content quickly, without downloading it.

I really don't see how you can justify reselling discs if you don't allow for reselling used downloads.

Of course you can resell a "download". You can resell any "digital content" you buy through some contract.

Or perhaps in some american contries where corporations could by rewriteen in the last few years you no longer can?

How long before someone makes a thread
"Used games basically kills off New Xbox?"

e can hope. But there are far better reasons for the new xbox to die.

 

[Puck Nutty]

Check out Sony taking a shot at Microsoft. I loled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eOa812mYA

Edit: Embedding isn't working. Sorry.

 

[warpus]

Check out Microsoft taking a shot at Microsoft


Link to video.