[RD] No More Democrats Who Focus Excessively on Complaints About Donald Trump

[stinkubus]

The idea that there's some sort of radical, violent left wing movement in America today is a complete fabrication.

 

[Lexicus]

Hey, now. It is not like violent tactics worked the first time around.

What the hell are you talking about? We won the war.

Also, if the Weimar government had just hanged Hitler and the other Nazis for treason in 1923 the whole thing might have been nipped in the bud.

 

[Traitorfish]

Undeveloped.

It is like if I told you I could change your life, and started quoting from a self help book.
I mean well, but would you not be skeptixal.

Is it unexpected that a first-time candidate, working with very limited resources, should have a program that's relatively sparse on legal and financial specifics? It's not that those aren't valid criticisms of the program, but the conclusion is that she should develop them, not that it is impossible to develop them, as "rainbows and unicorns" implies.

Hey, now. It is not like violent tactics worked the first time around. At least the socialists tried.

Better late than never.

 

[Archon_Wing]

What the hell are you talking about? We won the war.

Also, if the Weimar government had just hanged Hitler and the other Nazis for treason in 1923 the whole thing might have been nipped in the bud.

More referring to vigilante action since we are talking about antifa..... Lol

And maybe if they hanged every Nazi.

 

[Lexicus]

More referring to vigilante action since we are talking about antifa..... Lol

"Violent tactics" vary with circumstances. Vigilante action is called for when the nazis are disorganized and like vigilantes themselves. When they're running a state, you fight them with a state.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Is it unexpected that a first-time candidate, working with very limited resources, should have a program that's relatively sparse on legal and financial specifics? It's not that those aren't valid criticisms of the program, but the conclusion is that she should develop them, not that it is impossible to develop them, as "rainbows and unicorns" implies.

Better late than never.

Yea, but it is precisely the lack of resources and experience that'd lead to biting off more than one can chew.

If she brings results, then I'll enjoy the rainbows, thank you very much.

Violent tactics" vary with circumstances. Vigilante action is called for when the nazis are disorganized and like vigilantes themselves. When they're running a state, you fight them with a state.

That is honestly pretty arbitary.

I really don't believe either group is going to remain anything but fringe. In fact one set of White Nationalists was basically driven away by people peacefully demonstrating. As it turns out not sinking to their level has worked well. We just can't have presidents endorsing them. Now that will lead to fascism.

 

[Lexicus]

I really don't believe either group is going to remain anything but fringe. In fact one set of White Nationalists was basically driven away by people peacefully demonstrating. As it turns out not sinking to their level has worked well. We just can't have presidents endorsing them. Now that will lead to fascism.

Well, this is a problem right here. White Nationalism is in the goddamn White House. It's not 'fringe' by any definition, except the dumb one used to draw false equivalences between antifa and nazis.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well, this is a problem right here. White Nationalism is in the goddamn White House. It's not 'fringe' by any definition, except the dumb one used to draw false equivalences between antifa and nazis.

Why do you think I wrote the last sentence?

And yea I kinda wrote that antifa is basically a whataboutism and like they haven't killed anyone but yea.........

 

[Hrothbern]

Interesting.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017...ge-university-washington-study-critics-wrong/

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/business/economy/seattle-minimum-wage.html

Seems to me $15 minimum wage is actually hurting low wage workers. I don't know all of AOC's positions, just that a $15 national minimum wage is one of them.

Regardless, she's one member of the house. It's going to take a huge wave of like minded people to actually pass these kinds of legislation.

Considering that there are quite some OECD developed countries that have minimum wages 50% higher than the US.

If the analysis in those two articles would be correct.
What does that say ?
I think it says that there are many "jobs" now in the US that do not add a high enough value per hour to pay for example $15 per hour.
You can draw the conclusion that higher minimum wages destroy jobs, what happens in the articles.
You can also draw the conclusion that many of those "jobs" are not worth being called a job and are masking unemployment.
You can also draw the conclusion that many of these jobs do not add high enough value per hour because the employer has not invested in means to improve the labour productivity to such a degree that these "jobs" do add enough value per hour.
(and as long as an employer has cheap labor at hire & fire availability, why would he invest in means that on the balance do not decrease the total cost per hour compared to the added value per hour ?)

And back to my first point: how is it possible that those other prosperous OECD countries can pay 50% more ?
(and likely not by making a loss on those minimum wage employees)
Is that because the employers in those other countries were forced, slowly and steady over time, to also give attention and means in improving labour productivity ?

and sure..... higher labour productivity will cause loss of jobs at the rate of that productivity improvement.
But that should never be a problem in an evergrowing economy that the US has.... as long as the process of wage increase and productivity increase go at a steady pace.

 

[Lexicus]

Why do you think I wrote the last sentence?

It goes well beyond the President expressing support for the nazis in tweets. I mean, there are like concentration camps set up. That is basically the white nationalist policy centerpiece: incarceration of immigrants in concentration camps to "deter more from coming here." One of the political parties in the US has submitted white nationalist immigration policy in the US Congress.

And yea I kinda wrote that antifa is basically a whataboutism and like they haven't killed anyone but yea.........

That's true, I mostly agree with your take on antifa in this thread.

 

[Archon_Wing]

It goes well beyond the President expressing support for the nazis in tweets. I mean, there are like concentration camps set up. That is basically the white nationalist policy centerpiece: incarceration of immigrants in concentration camps to "deter more from coming here."

Yea, I wrote about that earlier in the thread too. Kidnapping children is inhumane. And yes, abolish ICE. Those are the real deal.

That in addition to Jeff Sessions policies are basically Neo Jim Crow.

 

[Berzerker]

Well, I DO identify antifa as violent criminals btw. And Nazis as well, because of certain past occurrences showing me it's hardly a peaceful ideology. But let's not resort to that kind of whataboutism. I actually do believe there are people that oppose removing the statue that were doing it for legitimate reasons. I just wasn't hearing it.

You weren't hearing it because the news is fake... During the brawl video showed 3 guys in fatigues with guns forming a triangle. That photo was posted here as evidence of violent neo-Nazis. They weren't dressed up like neo-Nazis and they were peaceful, no one was attacking them and they weren't attacking anyone else - their guns kept the peace. So antifa people saw them and went around. There were all sorts of people protesting that day but the media regularly portrays one side as neo-Nazis. Antifa started that brawl... Thats what they do, they show up to silence dissent and they do it in the name of fighting fascism. The King is dead...long live the King!

BTW I never said rightists are violent criminals either.

Didn't you call the killer a neo-Nazi and accuse Trump of calling them fine people? The notion Trump likes neo-Nazis requires us to believe he's antisemitic when his daughter married an orthodox (?) Jew.

? I don't understand this at all. Why are we talking about deporting all of a sudden. Just because someone did it before Trump makes it okay? Or what? And even on that level, they were separating children from families.

David Duke wants hispanics coming in deported. Thats what Obama was doing. Do you think Duke only applauds deporting people when Trump is doing it? Of course not, he's just not gonna applaud Obama because he's a racist but he certainly agreed with deporting people under Obama.

Hand wringing about Antifa is a sure fire tell as to where one gets their news from.

Yahoo? Various outlets report the ongoing protest the protesters movement

Quotes You Will Regret When The US is Actually Fascist, Part 43

We were fascist long ago, corporations and politicians have been running this country for decades.

"Violent tactics" vary with circumstances. Vigilante action is called for when the nazis are disorganized and like vigilantes themselves. When they're running a state, you fight them with a state.

Vigilantes enforce laws, antifa attacks free speech

 

[Kyriakos]

But they haven't killed anyone yet. I'll give you that.

Maybe not the US antifa, but in other countries antifa actions (like setting a bank on fire) did result in a number of deaths.
I think the issue is that some people (obviously a very small minority) who are in all but name very nazi, end up (also) in antifa, and they are always dangerous.

 

[Archon_Wing]

You weren't hearing it because the news is fake... During the brawl video showed 3 guys in fatigues with guns forming a triangle. That photo was posted here as evidence of violent neo-Nazis. They weren't dressed up like neo-Nazis and they were peaceful, no one was attacking them and they weren't attacking anyone else - their guns kept the peace. So antifa people saw them and went around. There were all sorts of people protesting that day but the media regularly portrays one side as neo-Nazis. Antifa started that brawl... Thats what they do, they show up to silence dissent and they do it in the name of fighting fascism. The King is dead...long live the King!

The big thing about the incident is someone got killed and the president was slow to condenmn the murderer and his ilk. I'm not sure why you keep on downplaying that part. Antifa is not completely innocent, but did not kill anyone. One side had White Nationalists, fine, if you wanna split hairs and not call them Nazis, whatever.

Didn't you call the killer a neo-Nazi

Well, yes I did.

I guess he could just revere Hitler and not be one. And hang out with White Nationalists and not be one. What, Vanguard America's just an innocent group of protestors? I suppose those hearsay comments about classmates about drawing Swastikas could just be for fun.

Seriously, what do you see the murderer as?

The notion Trump likes neo-Nazis requires us to believe he's antisemitic when his daughter married an orthodox (?) Jew.

This is just a step above "I have a black friend, I can't be racist"

BTW, I never said Trump was a Nazi. Or even a racist. You can rest easy. You don't have to like a political group to pander to their interests. That's what politicians do.

David Duke wants hispanics coming in deported.

The Tweet has, like, nothing to do with deportation. Is it possible that he supports Trump because he's white? Dunno, but that doesn't mean that's the sole difference.

Maybe not the US antifa, but in other countries antifa actions (like setting a bank on fire) did result in a number of deaths.
I think the issue is that some people (obviously a very small minority) who are in all but name very nazi, end up (also) in antifa, and they are always dangerous.

Well, violence is always dangerous and sets a bad precedent. Defensive violence can be justified but it shouldn't be casually glorified. But people are always full of whataboutisms and you have to exhaustively denounce everything ie. "BUT WhAT ABOUT STALIN" when you mention Hitler and vice versa.

And there are far superior methods to dealing with racists anyways: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/san-francisco-far-right-rally_us_59a08351e4b0821444c332bf

Counterprotests with zero tolerance for violence.

Certainly much better than those fights across the bay.