None Shall Pass [Game Thread - Concluded]

[Frozen In Ice]

Spaceman the only thing I'm claiming about the cult's power is that I am getting role blocked. The cult still being able to convert is what Stuck in PI has admitted and demonstrated. I for one find it hard to believe that he has unlimited conversions with his leader dead, as this would make the game broken, but he hasn't elaborated on how he is still able to convert. G3TC claimed that he was role blocked only once on the same night I've been role blocked IIRC. He said the other times that he simply forgot to send orders in/got his ability stolen.

Lynching Vader helps both of the towns though. We get to rid ourselves of the main thing dividing our town, and LOTR town gets rid of someone who's going to exclusively target LOTR players for night attacks, as he's going to leave Star Wars players alive when he can just convert them.

 

[Jarrema]

vote: Frozen in Ice for trying to lynch another SW

 

[Frozen In Ice]

vote: Frozen in Ice for trying to lynch another SW

You do realize that the Star Wars town will become united when Vader dies? Your reasoning makes zero sense unless you've been converted as well. He wouldn't be a threat to us if he couldn't convert, but since he can he needs to die ASAP.

 

[sirtommygunn]

vote: Frozen in Ice for trying to lynch another SW

"I will now try to get this SW person killed for dividing the town, thus dividing the town even further"

 

[Zack]

TALLY:

[TIMER=11/26/2013 11:59 PM EST; Day Eleven Over][/TIMER]

 

[topsecret]

vote: Frozen in Ice for trying to lynch another SW

Topsecret fails to see the logic in trying to lynch FII just for voting Stuck in Pi who has admitted to be Vader. Maybe for other reasons, but just for voting for Vader... not logical.

 

[Arakhor]

And some more evidence of cult bussing. Honestly, Arakhor is looking like the best candidate for LOTR cult right now.

Really? That's the best you can manage? I have helped knock off half the LotR cult, SamSniped disputed my claims all that day, including voting for me on a day I might have been lynched and you're still claiming that I'm running a Xanatos Gambit to somehow throw away victory to actually snatch it back whilst seemingly locked in the jaws of defeat? Wouldn't the eminently more logical argument be that I am actually innocent?

What is with the complete turnaround today, Arakhor? Last night you insisted we needed to go after SW cult. Now Vader has revealed himself, and suddenly LOTR cult is top priority.

If Frozen is a LotR cultist, lynching him reduces the cult numbers and equalises the LotR/SW imbalance. Since SIP has revealed himself to be Vader, I don't see any reason why LotR Cult won't try to knock him off tonight, especially as he is SW's only remaining threat to them. Either way, Pi is likely dead by this time tomorrow, so why not leave him alive tonight to allow him to strike at a LotR cultist?

It seems like a lot to ask SW to a. let our town members be lynched two days in a row.

We let three LotR members in a row be lynched. Isn't SW brave enough to lose two?

We have also learned that Vader can kill AND convert on the same night, he is way too dangerous to leave alive.

You really think Vader can wound people and convert in the same night?

(Oh, but only if we go after the never-before-seen cross-town cult conversion)? ... Oh, and the one guy he couldn't convert? LOTR cult, obviously.

For what little it's worth, Camikaze told me that SW Cult had the option to convert a LotR townie, but didn't take up the option. Also, if I'm reading Visor's spreadsheet correctly, Choxorn found a SW townie who could have been converted to LotR Cult (don't quote me on that one though).

 

[Arakhor]

One other question - was it Frozen who claiming to be roleblocked last night?

 

[dcmort93]

Either way, Pi is likely dead by this time tomorrow, so why not leave him alive tonight to allow him to strike at a LotR cultist?

I agree with this. We know exactly who he is so should he decide to burn us or survive the night, he gets lynched.

I'm going to stick with my case on G3TC as it seems to be a pretty decent lead and I haven't heard anything to the contrary to clear him.

 

[Frozen In Ice]

Darth Vader kills KingMorgan.

I've been acting in the same way, except when I tried to flip you, it failed.

Arakhor, are you purposely ignoring these things, because it was pretty hard to miss. Vader killed and converted in the same night.

 

[sirtommygunn]

If Frozen is a LotR cultist, lynching him reduces the cult numbers and equalises the LotR/SW imbalance. Since SIP has revealed himself to be Vader, I don't see any reason why LotR Cult won't try to knock him off tonight, especially as he is SW's only remaining threat to them. Either way, Pi is likely dead by this time tomorrow, so why not leave him alive tonight to allow him to strike at a LotR cultist?

And if he isn't, which is very likely, then SW loses a townie before we eliminate the last threatening cultist, meaning Vader gets to convert another person. So that's at least 3 SW that have to die because of this absurd strategy of yours. And why should LOTR cult end the hunt for SW cult early? Vader is taking blind shots, he'll probably even the number of cult/non-cult a bit before he actually hits anything. Meanwhile they can always just walk into the thread and say that clearly the cult won't take Vader down so the town must. They can do that at any time, without arousing suspicion.

We let three LotR members in a row be lynched. Isn't SW brave enough to lose two?

Well sure it looks unfair if we're just going to keep ignoring that during those three LOTR lynches that the LOTR cult was killing at night to even it up.

You really think Vader can wound people and convert in the same night?

Well let's just take five seconds of observation and look. Pi confirmed he tried to convert last FII last night, and someone died at the hands of Vader last night. WHAT A MYSTERY!

 

[sirtommygunn]

You guys have a real problem with thinking you can control the cults to your own benefit, when they have absolutely no incentive to follow your direction to a sure defeat. Seriously, stop proposing any plan that involves "And then we leave the cult alive on purpose to do what we want them to".

 

[Arakhor]

Arakhor, are you purposely ignoring these things, because it was pretty hard to miss. Vader killed and converted in the same night.

Well let's just take five seconds of observation and look. Pi confirmed he tried to convert last FII last night, and someone died at the hands of Vader last night. WHAT A MYSTERY!

I think KM was already wounded, so even so, yes, it would appear that he can attack and convert in one night. That doesn't necessarily mean every night, though does it? Besides which, if I was this Machiavellian super-genius that Tommy and Azza are claiming I am, that seems like a really basic error of memory recall to make. I'll put my hands up to being absent-minded, but I'm hardly James Moriarty.

Meanwhile they can always just walk into the thread and say that clearly the cult won't take Vader down so the town must. They can do that at any time, without arousing suspicion.

Why? If Vader can kill every night (which he hasn't been, I believe), why would LotR Cult allow him to live? He could easily strike at them - with only six LotR characters left, there's a flat 1-in-3 chance of striking blindly and still wounding or killing a cultist, even ignoring the fact that Gandalf the White is highly unlikely to be a LotR cultist and (of course) I'm not either, which leaves just 50% odds of striking a cultist. Would Saruman want to play that game?

 

[Arakhor]

The only two role-blockers left that I know of are men-only blockers and FII, G3tC and myself are the only female characters left in the game, which only leaves four options:

A) We are to assume that Pi somehow wounded/killed KM, tried to convert Frozen and roleblocked him as well
B) In addition to Saruman and the Mouth both trying to attack people tonight, they also roleblocked Frozen (for some reason)
C) There's an undisclosed roleblocker keeping quiet about their ability, also blocking Frozen for some reason
D) Frozen is lying (again, for some unclear reason)

 

[azzaman333]

unvote; vote: Stuck In Pi

He admitted to being Vader, he dies.

 

[sirtommygunn]

I think KM was already wounded, so even so, yes, it would appear that he can attack and convert in one night. That doesn't necessarily mean every night, though does it? Besides which, if I was this Machiavellian super-genius that Tommy and Azza are claiming I am, that seems like a really basic error of memory recall to make. I'll put my hands up to being absent-minded, but I'm hardly James Moriarty.

Does it matter if he can't do both every night? What if, instead of attacking the cult, he only converted tonight instead. Better to put an unknown into the mix than to follow the town's orders to a guaranteed loss.

It doesn't take a super-genius to create the plan of "waste lynch on SW townies for as long as possible".

Why? If Vader can kill every night (which he hasn't been, I believe), why would LotR Cult allow him to live? He could easily strike at them - with only six LotR characters left, there's a flat 1-in-3 chance of striking blindly and still wounding or killing a cultist, even ignoring the fact that Gandalf the White is highly unlikely to be a LotR cultist and (of course) I'm not either, which leaves just 50% odds of striking a cultist. Would Saruman want to play that game?

Vader would still consider you a suspect, he doesn't have the same information you do, so already your math is wrong. Secondly, there is no controlling Vader, and he has no incentive to hunt the cult over your town because you've made it clear you're going to dispose of him, and the rest of the SW faction, at the earliest possible opportunity. Thirdly, the chance of being injured by Vader is inconsequential when you consider that leaving him alive nets the LOTR cult 2+ days of them not being lynch candidates, thanks to letting Vader convert.

 

[Arakhor]

I may not be Moriarty, but I'm not daft. I've already passed onto Vader what information I have about the LotR cult - he knows everything I do about possible cultists in LotR Town and he even confirmed some suspicions of my own. The enemy of my enemy and all that, don't you know?

Besides, with two known cultists hiding amongst six townies, that has to be a 1-in-3 chance if we discount all other possibilities.

 

[sirtommygunn]

Well, if it's a 1-3 chance of something positive (for you) coming out of this in two days with no possible benefit to my faction in any way, I guess I have no choice but to admit that your plan is clearly superior to the 100% chance of doing something that benefits both towns today!

 

[Takhisis]

This is so entertaining. I wish I was alive.

 

[spaceman98]

Wut... None of this makes any sense. at all.

Spaceman the only thing I'm claiming about the cult's power is that I am getting role blocked. The cult still being able to convert is what Stuck in PI has admitted and demonstrated. I for one find it hard to believe that he has unlimited conversions with his leader dead, as this would make the game broken, but he hasn't elaborated on how he is still able to convert. G3TC claimed that he was role blocked only once on the same night I've been role blocked IIRC. He said the other times that he simply forgot to send orders in/got his ability stolen.

Lynching Vader helps both of the towns though. We get to rid ourselves of the main thing dividing our town, and LOTR town gets rid of someone who's going to exclusively target LOTR players for night attacks, as he's going to leave Star Wars players alive when he can just convert them.

The red highlight indicates a common scum excuse, claiming that you forgot to send orders. Remember, Celt was active every day in thread, so I find it difficult to believe that he/she would just forget at night. Also, we still have the utterly unbelievable claim that the cults have two roleblockers. New theory: Celt is a cultist, who is roleblocking FII, and claiming that he himself is being roleblocked.

The only two role-blockers left that I know of are men-only blockers and FII, G3tC and myself are the only female characters left in the game, which only leaves four options:
A) We are to assume that Pi somehow wounded/killed KM, tried to convert Frozen and roleblocked him as well
B) In addition to Saruman and the Mouth both trying to attack people tonight, they also roleblocked Frozen (for some reason)
C) There's an undisclosed roleblocker keeping quiet about their ability, also blocking Frozen for some reason
D) Frozen is lying (again, for some unclear reason)

The red highlight illustrates why FII and Celt's claims about the limitations on their abilities are absurd. They are both female, which implies that either they have been lying FOR A LONG TIME about their abilities being limited, or one (or both) of them is lying right now, about being roleblocked. When did Celt claim to be a female only roleblocker? I find it very hard to believe that Celt was cult on the day when BL was lynched, since a cultist would just have let Visorslash hang (as Takhisis happily did), so if Celt made his female-only claim before that, its probably true. There could also be other roleblockers somewhere (two of them, capable of roleblocking females, who made no waves before they begun to mysteriously block FII and Celt), but this IMO is highly unlikely, unless the cults are absurdly overpowered, in which case, face it guys, we lost already, and never really had a chance of winning after day 2, when the NCers were lynched or revealed.