pre-release info Norman - Exploration Age Civilization Discussion

[stealth_nsk]

Oh I see. That would mean no Aztecs.

Aztecs could be the first unlocked civ here if they have some way to be unlocked through gameplay. Or this alphabetic thing could be just not the case for this build (i.e. just not all civs there).

(I really expect Aztecs to be in the base game as exploration era civ, both because Aztecs were in all 6 previous Civ games from vanilla and because they are perfect expansion-era regional successors for Maya)

 

[kaspergm]

What confuses me in this screen are the "Play as Greece, Play as Rome" etc. checkboxes. We're at the Exploration Age transition, so I don't get the significance of choosing a different Antiquity civilization at this point.

Maybe there isn't a choice, but in that case I don't see why the user would be presented with checkboxes.

I found this super confusing as well, but I think I understand it now: I think it's not a choice, but is meant to show you why you unlocked this Civ. So in this case, the Normans got unlocked because they played as Rome, hence the check-mark with Rome.

 

[8housesofelixir]

It is quite interesting how (hypothetical, of course) someone accidentally typed "Play as Greece" instead of "Played as Greece" can create so much confusion.

 

[TheGrayFox]

And ok, Normans becoming French makes sense, no objections.

Arguable. West Francia predates the Normans by centuries and the Kingdom of France was officially created only a few decades apart from the establishment of Norse in Normandy.

I think the weirdest part of this choice though is that the Exploration Age typically is associated with Colonization and Norman England hadn't existed for centuries by this point and Normandy was either a part of the Kingdom of France or England during the Middle ages.

 

[Krikkit1]

Arguable. West Francia predates the Normans by centuries and the Kingdom of France was officially created only a few decades apart from the establishment of Norse in Normandy.

I think the weirdest part of this choice though is that the Exploration Age typically is associated with Colonization and Norman England hadn't existed for centuries by this point and Normandy was either a part of the Kingdom of France or England during the Middle ages.

That's why the Norman influence in both kingdoms can be used to cover the roles of both of them in the Second Age.

Good chance to blob up some European "civs"

 

[Arent11]

Arguable. West Francia predates the Normans by centuries and the Kingdom of France was officially created only a few decades apart from the establishment of Norse in Normandy.

I think the weirdest part of this choice though is that the Exploration Age typically is associated with Colonization and Norman England hadn't existed for centuries by this point and Normandy was either a part of the Kingdom of France or England during the Middle ages.

I'm trying to make allowances

I suspect there will be mods 2 days after release that allow me to play Rome Antiquity -> Rome Exploration -> Rome 40k

The emperor protects

 

[TheGrayFox]

That's why the Norman influence in both kingdoms can be used to cover the roles of both of them in the Second Age.

Good chance to blob up some European "civs"

The Normans didn't rule France and are the worst English Dyansty to represent the Age of Exploration (a time defined by new world exploration and colonization)

 

[AntSou]

It is quite interesting how (hypothetical, of course) someone accidentally typed "Play as Greece" instead of "Played as Greece" can create so much confusion.

This could be the Civ selection screen, not the transition at the end of the age of Antiquity.

So you're choosing to play as Norman, and in that same screen they give you the three options for antiquity that will directly unlock the Normans without any additional conditions required.

 

[Navelgazer]

I found this super confusing as well, but I think I understand it now: I think it's not a choice, but is meant to show you why you unlocked this Civ. So in this case, the Normans got unlocked because they played as Rome, hence the check-mark with Rome.

That's my read on it as well. Now, as we all know, two points make a line, and so because it's listed as:

• Play as Greece
• Play as Rome
• Play as [REDACTED!]

and Greece and Rome are in alphabetical order, I think there's reason to think that the third civ here comes after Rome alphabetically. Which, to me, leans towards it being Visigoths.

My speculation is that unlocked civs are listed first then locked civs are listed.

So Rome, in this reading (which I like) would unlock something before Normans and something after Normans alphabetically. That leaves a lot of options more open, but it amuses me that it could mean both Byzantium and Ottomans.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

and Greece and Rome are in alphabetical order, I think there's reason to think that the third civ here comes after Rome alphabetically. Which, to me, leans towards it being Visigoths.

Are we getting the return of the Vikings?
But in all honestly it probably should be, just called the Norse.

So Rome, in this reading (which I like) would unlock something before Normans and something after Normans alphabetically. That leaves a lot of options more open, but it amuses me that it could mean both Byzantium and Ottomans.

Spain probably makes more sense than the Ottomans.

 

[Navelgazer]

Are we getting the return of the Vikings?
But in all honestly it probably should be, just called the Norse.

I think, with the way the map expansion works going from Antiquity to Exploration, that if we get a Viking civ anywhere in the game, it can't be in Antiquity. (Though it'd be cool to be proven wrong there!)

 

[Navelgazer]

Spain probably makes more sense than the Ottomans.

Oh, you're absolutely right about that, yeah.

 

[Inawordyes]

I found this super confusing as well, but I think I understand it now: I think it's not a choice, but is meant to show you why you unlocked this Civ. So in this case, the Normans got unlocked because they played as Rome, hence the check-mark with Rome.

And if you selected another civ that is locked, you’d be able to see the qualifications and why you didn’t meet them to be able to choose that civ, presumably

 

[Siptah]

the worst English Dyansty to represent the Age of Exploration (a time defined by new world exploration and colonization)

It’s less a problem of the civ, but what historical period they chose: Age 2 in civ VII starts in 400 CE and presumably ends in the 1500s or 1600s. Many of the colonizers will go to Age 3 (France, Britain, US, Germany, Russia). I fear only Netherlands and Spain will be „classic“ colonizers in Age 2. But hey, you can explore more things than new continents…

And re: Normans. They did cross the sea(s) and conquered „new“ lands.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It’s less a problem of the civ, but what historical period they chose: Age 2 in civ VII starts in 400 CE and presumably ends in the 1500s or 1600s. Many of the colonizers will go to Age 3 (France, Britain, US, Germany, Russia). I fear only Netherlands and Spain will be „classic“ colonizers in Age 2. But hey, you can explore more things than new continents…

There might be an argument that if the end date is around the 1500s or 1600s then the Dutch could also reasonably be Modern.

 

[El Castellano]

That's my read on it as well. Now, as we all know, two points make a line, and so because it's listed as:

• Play as Greece
• Play as Rome
• Play as [REDACTED!]

and Greece and Rome are in alphabetical order, I think there's reason to think that the third civ here comes after Rome alphabetically. Which, to me, leans towards it being Visigoths.

It does not have to be a civilization. It may be play with a leader that has not yet been shown.

As is the case of Songhai: play as Egypt, Aksum or Amina.

 

[TheGrayFox]

It’s less a problem of the civ, but what historical period they chose: Age 2 in civ VII starts in 400 CE and presumably ends in the 1500s or 1600s. Many of the colonizers will go to Age 3 (France, Britain, US, Germany, Russia). I fear only Netherlands and Spain will be „classic“ colonizers in Age 2. But hey, you can explore more things than new continents…

And re: Normans. They did cross the sea(s) and conquered „new“ lands.

Oh my problem is less with the Civ choice (though again slightly weird considering Normandy itself was never independent) and wholly about the weird position they fall into when seperating the campaigns into three seperate ages.

Sure the Normans may have technically crossed seas but all their conquest were technically on the same continent and again Normandy itself was never independent.. You're presuming the age ends in 1500 (would make sense considering how many define the modern age) or 1600s, but its likely that the age will extend further until the 1700s

Assumptions about the dates the age will cover aside, I fear a lot of civilizations and dynasties/states are going to fall into similarly weird positions and restrictive places because of the three age system. The Normans, who ceased to even rule Sicily and England by the late middle ages and centuries before the Age of Exploration the age is supposed to cover being a good example.

 

[Lord Lakely]

That's my read on it as well. Now, as we all know, two points make a line, and so because it's listed as:

• Play as Greece
• Play as Rome
• Play as [REDACTED!]

If I recall correctly, the conditions for Songhai were worded as follows:

• Play as Aksum
• Play as Egypt
• Play as Amina

If this is consistent, then leaders would be put below Civs in this menu, out of alphabetical order. Which means the third Unlock for Norman could be leader specific.

 

[AriochIV]

If I recall correctly, the conditions for Songhai were worded as follows:

• Play as Aksum
• Play as Egypt
• Play as Amina

If this is consistent, then leaders would be put below Civs in this menu, out of alphabetical order. Which means the third Unlock for Norman could be leader specific.

I sense an Alexander-shaped disturbance in The Force...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I sense an Alexander-shaped disturbance in The Force...

To be fair, all of Alexander's options would probably be in Antiquity, unlike the leader for the Normans.