NOTW XLIV: The Root of All Evil GAME THREAD

[Kennigit]

Do other players think the game goes too fast when you have 2+ people dying per night (admittedly there were WOGs due to lack of reserves too)?

I like it best when, by design, the game "should" last around 8-10 game days competitive days (i.e. game isn't just unwinnable for a team and days 6-10 are wasted, but game doesn't drag out like 14 game days).

 

[Bad Player]

I wasn't. I just hate when the town blindly follows a claimed investigator.

And this time, I was right. It's dangerous to just go duhhhhh ok, whatever you say mister investigator.

And when you claimed, you opened up a can of death directly on your head, because there was going to be someone in the game who wanted you dead after that. It came at too high a price, I shouldn't have told you a darned thing, but your death was the penalty for that move.

So I can learn, what should someone do to role claim without making someone else want to kill them?

And even though I back stabbed you I want to say I left it until the last possible minute to attack you (you started leading people) because I think it's lame that good players are targeted at the start (hence my first kill attempt on sirtommygun whom I'd never heard of).

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Bad Player, your claim was very successful, created errors on the town side by force (mislynch, me revealing to you stuff you shouldn't have known) and would have been brilliant if you were on a larger mafia team. The problem comes from the odds of your death increasing greatly after that claim, which leads to your loss.

Thing is, if you claim investigator, 99% of the time, one of the following things is true:

1) You're a town investigator, therefore the mafia/SK/others want you dead.
2) You're lying, therefore the town wants you dead.

As such, when claiming investigator, you immediately draw the ire of every faction. The town will listen to you, most likely, but will also view your move as one a gangster would make when backed into a corner. So they won't let you survive the game, especially if the mafia don't seem to be in a hurry to kill a claimed investigator.

Claiming such won't increase your chances of survival for very long.

In games where private reveals are allowed, send a message to another player and ask them to claim in your place, and lead the accusations. That way, the mafia will target them instead of you. Also, if you can kill, you can kill that person and silence them, while accomplishing your goals.

If private reveals are not allowed, your options are more limited. People are also suspicious towards a limited-number of investigations type role, because that smacks of mafia trying to claim and then also survive afterward.

That said, if you suspect there are doctors in the game, claiming investigator could give you a solid reason why you're not being night killed; the doctor is keeping you alive.

In any case, investigators are generally not allowed to survive the game.

1) If the investigator nabs one mafioso, then never does again, but is still alive, that indicates a scumbag.

2) If the investigator nabs the second mafioso right before lynch or lose, that's too late. That smacks of bussing your second partner just in time to survive one final lynch. You must lynch that investigator on Lynch or Lose (lylo).

If it took you that long to find the second of three mafiosi, then town did such a terrible job that it doesn't deserve to win the game. More likely is the investigator is full of it.

3) If the investigator never finds a scumbag, it's also likely to be a scumbag.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

I also tried to stop the lynch against tommygun because it was possible that you were lying, in which case, stopping his lynch would make me look very good, or that you were telling the truth, and I was trying to get tommygun to reveal something juicy to me in private by claiming neutral after I saved his life.

He said he was innocent, swore it up and down, and that's when I went "Oh.... shoot...."

Because that meant you were guilty and I had already told you about Seon. And if he was guilty, that meant I wasn't getting jack for information from him and I just spared a gangster.

In any case, I realized I was boned. I play risky, and this time, the risk didn't pay off.

 

[sirtommygunn]

I also tried to stop the lynch against tommygun because it was possible that you were lying, in which case, stopping his lynch would make me look very good, or that you were telling the truth, and I was trying to get tommygun to reveal something juicy to me in private by claiming neutral after I saved his life.

He said he was innocent, swore it up and down, and that's when I went "Oh.... shoot...."

Because that meant you were guilty and I had already told you about Seon. And if he was guilty, that meant I wasn't getting jack for information from him and I just spared a gangster.

In any case, I realized I was boned. I play risky, and this time, the risk didn't pay off.

Don't feel too bad about it, I read between the lines of your pm and knew you were an innocent trying to bait a godfather, so I knew there was at least one person I could trust.

 

[Bad Player]

2) If the investigator nabs the second mafioso right before lynch or lose, that's too late. That smacks of bussing your second partner just in time to survive one final lynch. You must lynch that investigator on Lynch or Lose (lylo).

Apologies for picking your brains so much but could you explain what this lylo situation is?

 

[Bad Player]

Btw sirtommygun I genuinely thought you were mafia at first simply because I didn't read my role PM carefully.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Apologies for picking your brains so much but could you explain what this lylo situation is?

Lynch or Lose (lylo) means this is the town (or other faction's) last chance to lynch someone they need lynched, or the result will be 100% loss in all ending calculations.

Example: 3 townies, 2 mafioso. 5 players left, but no dead mafia in a game of 2 scumbags. This is day phase, it is now Lynch or Lose.

If town lynches town, town loses.


More complex example: 3 townies, 3 mafiosi, 1 serial killer.

The serial killer must lynch a mafiosi or lose the game.

• If SK is lynched, he loses.
• If townie is lynched, that's 2 town, 3 gangsters, 1 SK.

The mafia will murder either a townie or the SK tonight.
If they murder a townie, that's 1 town, minimum 2 gangsters, 1 SK. could also be 0 town, 3 gangsters, 1 sk.

The gangsters control the vote and win by force.

As such, 3-3-1 is lynch or lose for a serial killer.

 

[choxorn]

3-3-1 is also lynch and lose for the town. Lynch the serial killer? They lose. Lynch a town? They lose. Lynch a mafia? Still a slight chance, but not a big one.

 

[Zack]

3-3-1 is also lynch and lose for the town. Lynch the serial killer? They lose. Lynch a town? They lose. Lynch a mafia? Still a slight chance, but not a big one.

On a related note, I think in the Star Wars game I hosted on TWC, in the endgame the town was actually outnumbered by the opposing mafia teams (and neutral Grievous, a semi-SK). They ended up winning.

 

[Kennigit]

Pretty sure the shade sidar game (where I was serial killer rathus denmora) had like 3 mafia, me, and around those 4-7 townie numbers left where I, the serial killer, killed the mafia's only "killer" and then got lynched myself.

townies won iirc, but you'd need to rely on the serial killer killing the mafia

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Leaving the serial killer alive and crossing your fingers can be an effective pro-town strategy.

If the mafia have any brains they'll try to figure out who the SK is and kill them; SK needs to kill mafia. Therefore, let them murder each other.

 

[Takhisis]

That is, assuming you even find out who th Serial Killer is.

 

[Bad Player]

I know it sounds noob ish but was my role a SK one?

Also are role PMs coming landlubber?

 

[NinjaCow64]

I know it sounds noob ish but was my role a SK one?

Also are role PMs coming landlubber?

I think so. Basically a SK is a single player who wants everyone dead and has a Nightkill. You had all of those plus more.

 

[Zack]

I know it sounds noob ish but was my role a SK one?

Also are role PMs coming landlubber?

A serial killer is essentially a mafia team with only one member, so I'd say yes.

 

[landlubber]

Also are role PMs coming landlubber?

Gah, right. Working on them right now.

 

[landlubber]

Role PMs and Endgame Commentary​

Spoiler DaveShack (Acheron the Red Dragon) :

Name: Acheron the Red Dragon
Allegiance: Kaluge-- You win by surviving with the Dragon's Hoard in your possession at the end of the game.
Personal Goal: You have no personal goal. The Red Dragon is only concerned with safeguarding his Hoard.
Strength: 1
Abilities: The Red Dragon-- You are the spirit of Acheron, the Red Dragon. You have taken a place in the Grigori expedition in human form.
In this form, you are weak. You may post no more than five times every phase.
If you are killed before the expedition reaches Kaluge, you will take over the body of another player when the Champions reach Kaluge. If you are killed after the attack on Kaluge, you will die permanently.

DaveShack was a survivor role. Unbeknownst to him if he managed to seize control of the Hoard at any point in the game, his strength would increase up to 4, and he would become bulletproof. Come to think of it, he should have had greater strength to begin with for balance purposes.

Spoiler Bad Player (Baron Duin Halfmorn :

Name: Baron Duin Halfmorn
Allegiance: Doviello-- You win by surviving with the Dragon's Hoard in your possession at the end of the game OR by having the strength of your team overpower all of the remaining Grigori.
Personal Goal: Convert at least two humans to werewolves.
Strength: 5
Abilities: Werewolf Werewolves only transform at night. If you are lynched, your alignment will read as Grigori, not as Doviello.
You can survive one lynch OR one attack. Whichever happens first is the one you survive.
You may attempt to kill one player per night. There is a chance that you may kill them, but this is not guaranteed. If they survive, there is a chance they might become a werewolf and join your team.

Every night when he killed, he had a 50% chance to fail, 25% chance to kill the person, and 25% chance to convert the person. He never converted, and only failed twice IIRC.

Spoiler Verarde (Ashen Cultist) :

Name: Ashen Cultist
Allegiance: Sheaim-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Sheaim hands at the end of the game.
Personal Goal: Attack Baron Duin Halfmorn at some point in the game
Strength: 3
Abilities: The Ashen Veil You are a member of the Ashen Veil, a Sheaim cult that has found a place on the expedition to take Kaluge. Your teammates are Bonefang and Zack. At night, one member of the cult can attempt to kill a member of the expedition.

Spoiler bonefang (Ashen Ritualist) :

Name: Ashen Ritualist
Allegiance: Sheaim-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Sheaim hands at the end of the game.
Personal Goal: Win the game with more than one teammate surviving
Strength: 4
Abilities: The Ashen Veil You are a member of the Ashen Veil, a Sheaim cult that has found a place on the expedition to take Kaluge. Your teammates are Verarde and Zack. At night, one member of the cult can attempt to kill a member of the expedition.

Spoiler Zack (Ashen Summoner) :

Name: Ashen Summoner
Allegiance: Sheaim-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Sheaim hands at the end of the game.
Personal Goal: Attack the character in possession of the Dragon's Hoard at some point in the game
Strength: 2
Abilities: The Ashen Veil You are a member of the Ashen Veil, a Sheaim cult that has found a place on the expedition to take Kaluge. Your teammates are Bonefang and Verarde. At night, one member of the cult can attempt to kill a member of the expedition.

Despite the fact that any of these three could perform the kill, Verarde was the only one who ever did. I think they performed quite well considering that they were effectively two vanilla mafia against a survivor, a serial killer, and a few townie power roles.

Spoiler Seon (Grigori Surgeon/Doctor #1) :

Name: Grigori Surgeon
Allegiance: Grigori-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Grigori hands at the end of the game.
Personal Goal: Perform a protection with the aid of another doctor
Strength: 2
Abilities: The Doctor Each night, you may choose to protect someone. Alone, you may not be able to prevent their death. However, there are two other doctors in the game. If you can find them, your protections will be much stronger.

Spoiler askthepizzaguy (Grigori Druid/Doctor #2) :

Name: Grigori Druid
Allegiance: Grigori-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Grigori hands at the end of the game
Personal Goal: Protect at least two people from attack
Strength: 2
Abilities: The Doctor Each night, you may choose to protect someone. Alone, you may not be able to prevent their death. However, there are two other doctors in the game. If you can find them, your protections will be much stronger.

Spoiler Lord Nwahs6 (Grigori Healer/Doctor #3) :

Name: Grigori Healer
Allegiance: Grigori-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Grigori hands at the end of the game
Personal Goal: Know the identities of both of the other doctors at some point in the game (confirm this with a PM)
Strength: 1
Abilities: The Doctor Each night, you may choose to protect someone. Alone, you may not be able to prevent their death. However, there are two other doctors in the game. If you can find them, your protections will be much stronger.

Ah, yes, the doctors. Each of them had a 1/2 chance of protecting someone each night. When they linked up, they'd have a guaranteed protection. When all three were working together, the attacker had a high chance of being killed. I intended for them to be the main resistance against the anti-townies. Unfortunately, Nwahs went inactive very early and Seon and ATPG were both killed during the third day/night cycle.

Spoiler BSmith1068 (Grigori Adventurer/Vigilante) :

Name: Grigori Adventurer
Allegiance: Grigori-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Grigori hands at the end of the game
Personal Goal: Kill a non-Grigori player with your ability
Strength: 3
Abilities: The Ever-Vigilant You are an adventurer, and you have taken it upon yourself to ensure success of the siege. At night, you may attempt to kill a player. You may only use this ability twice.

Perhaps the most powerful townie role in the game. His high strength was supposed to make him hard to kill, and only Verarde, Zack, and Bad Player could kill him or survive a lynch at his expense. Unfortunately, Verarde attacked him Night One.

Spoiler NinjaCow64 (Grigori Beastmaster/Roleblocker) :

Name: Grigori Beastmaster
Allegiance: Grigori-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Grigori hands at the end of the game
Personal Goal: Prevent a kill with your ability
Strength: 2
Abilities: The Feral You have a way with animals, and you have many beasts under your control. At night, you may choose a player to target. This acts as a roleblock; any abilities the players has are not effective for one night. You may only use this ability twice.

Another townie power role killed Night Three. So, by Day Four (before the game was even half over, might I add) out of the seven people that had died, four of them were townie power roles! choxorn and Nwahs were the only power roles left, and Nwahs was inactive. Because of this, I could tell that the game was leaning towards a very easy mafia victory.
Speaking of choxorn...

Spoiler choxorn (Grigori Dragon Slayer/Scanner) :

Name: Grigori Dragon Slayer
Allegiance: Grigori-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Grigori hands at the end of the game
Personal Goal: Slay Acheron the Red Dragon during the siege of Kaluge
Strength: 3
Abilities The Chosen One You are one of the most capable fighters on the journey. Every night before the siege of Kaluge, you may choose one player to target. I will then tell you truthfully if this player is allied with Acheron the Red Dragon or not.

A very strong Champion, he was killed by Verarde as well. He was the only non-vanilla who had a chance of slaying the Red Dragon, so he was kind of important. Coupled with his scanning power, he was a good guy to have around. He was killed at the halfway mark, though. At that point, the power roles were all dead or inactive, so all the mafia had to do was kill off all the active townies to eliminate discussion and keep tension off of themselves.

Spoiler everyone else (Vanilla Townie PM) :

Name: Grigori Champion
Allegiance: Grigori-- You win if the Dragon's Hoard is in Grigori hands at the end of the game
Personal Goal: Slay Acheron the Red Dragon
Strength: 2
Abilities: The Hero You are one of many Grigori Champions. You form the backbone of the Grigori Champion's Guild. Your job is to seize the Dragon's Hoard. Your only ability is to attack Acheron the Red Dragon once the party reaches Kaluge.

This was all that was left of the town by Day Six. These rather powerless folk managed to survive three days before the Sheaim were able to kill enough of them off and win. Originally, only a few players were going to be vanilla Champions, but, when I realized I wasn't going to get the 28 players I wanted, I decided to make most people vanilla.

So, that's it I guess. Thanks for playing!

 

[Bad Player]

What about the dragon fight? Could players have died fighting it?

 

[Verarde]

Dang, bonefang had more strength than me? If only we had known!