SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
Does anyone here have figures for how much of government welfare is actually used erroneously?
Obama is a joke
- Thread starter RedRalph
- Start date
Ulyaoth
Emperor
Well, what has been deregulated in such times? Only things I've heard of are some stock and banking things during the Clinton and Bush administrations. Any other examples? I don't consider bailouts a right wing thing btw.
The push to deregulate generally, rather than specific regulations and industries, goes back at least to the Carter administration. Though in the early days that amounted to little more than budget-starving the Nixon programs of OSHA and EPA. Under Reagan there was a push to deregulate much more broadly. Airlines and trucking were deregulated with mixed, but mostly successful, results. There was also more broad based opposition to environmental regulations, and generally, with a few exceptions, environmental regulations and protections were stalled at 70s levels. There was a broad anti labor movement pushed by the Republicans and many Democrats. Fuel economy and energy conservation measures were stalled in the 80s after the price of oil went down and stabilized.
You see the financial services deregulation now, because it's headline news now. But it goes back to Reagan. That's why we had the S&L crisis back in the day. So it's not new, it just reached it's peak under Bush. It had been building for a long time before Bush was elected.
PlutonianEmpire
King of the Plutonian Empire
*Points and laughs*
Lord Malbeth
Emperor
Here's a good article:
http://onenewsnow.com/Politics/Default.aspx?id=578936
Here's some generic charts about projected spending:
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/welfare_chart_40.html
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
Nothing about welfare fraud there, just welfare spending in general.
Nope, we are trying to be first in the world in justice, not trying to let us sink to third rate or worse.
Ulyaoth
Emperor
We've been lacking in justice for a long time
Pretty much since the founding. That's no excuse to accept further backsliding.
Ulyaoth
Emperor
It'd be pretty hard to be getting worse.
It could get much worse if the galts gone wild get their way.
Ulyaoth
Emperor
And what is that supposed to mean?
That there is a certain randian fantasy among a segment of the population where selfishness is the end all, be all virtue.
Ulyaoth
Emperor
Has nothing to do with justice. Forming lynch mobs to go after rich people like many would love is not justice.
Where are the lynch mobs??
Berzerker
Deity
I think the main issue people should remember about the health care plans is that the current US health care system is already more expensive to the taxpayer (as well as the consumer) than almost all the other modern healthcare systems.
It's one thing to not want to pay for other people's healthcare, but it's another to insist on a system where you're spending more due to inefficiencies.
It's one thing to not want to pay for other people's healthcare, but it's another to insist on a system where you're spending more due to inefficiencies.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Which is quite an ironic statement given that capitalism is supposed to always be more efficient than socialism. But the US healthcare system has never been capitalistic. If it were, we would no longer have the drastic shortage of trained medical personnel or the lack of viable and competitive alternatives when it comes to hospitals, pharmaceuticals, testing laboratories, and insurance providers. Instead, what we really have is a government-controlled and subsidized scheme to defraud the taxpayers and the insurance customers, all so a few individuals (mostly doctors) can get filthy rich.
That's not right. It was the doctors themselves that limited the supply of doctors to push up their incomes. Big Pharma manipulates the patent laws to push up the costs of meds. Big advertising raises the demands for meds, and Big Pharma works with doctors to over prescribe. The AMA and the insurers collaborated to protect doctors who screw up. And now that the courts are giving big awards they are lobbying for relief. Over credentialing of medical specialists, determined not by the government, but by the organizations of the specialist themselves, is raising the prices by limiting the availability of specialist in all support functions. Insurers and doctors both have an incentive to run extra tests, prescribe extra meds, and other things to both avoid lawsuits and run up billable hours. Insurers create huge bureaucracies for the purpose of denying rightful claims, resulting in the doctors creating huge bureaucracies to justify such claims. Big Pharma concentrates all it's investment in drugs that people will have to take for years instead of drugs that cure disease.
All of these things, and millions more, are what capitalism does to drive up the costs of health care.
I think the mistake you are making is confusing "capitalism" with "free markets". When capitalists think of free markets the way Fundies do about gays and abortionists.
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Through the government which deemed the AMA responsible for those decisions.
Which are largely owned and controlled by doctors, as are the hospitals, medical labs and the insurance companies.
But I see we largely agree. You seem to have gotten hung up on the government's role in the operation. They are the one who mandated what the doctors and the rest of the medical industry crooks wanted by enacting laws and giving them the medical monopoly to rule our lives.
That's not capitalism. if there was capitalism, we would be able to select the doctor, the hospital, the medical labs, and even the insurance policies based on competition instead of coercion.
It is actually a form of socialism because it is all government-controlled and even largely subsidized through medicare and medicaid.
