1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Octopus Overlords Info

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by jimi12, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. kenken244

    kenken244 Grammar Nazi

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2007
    Messages:
    980
    Location:
    Grammar Nazi Conclave
    Mind Stapling!
     
  2. Mewtarthio

    Mewtarthio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,930
    "The Overlords protect us from the evils of the world. Evils like the Bannor. We are at the Bannor. We have always been at war with the Bannor. Bannor doubleplusungood. Let us now commence with our Hour of Hate for the Bannor."
     
  3. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    3,715
    Good. That speaks well of you.

    But without getting into that, keep in mind that a point of "happiness" in Civ is, in game terms, "Willing to tolerate more stuff I don't like before I stop working." That willingness could be motivated by fear as much as happiness and.... well, might not really be "willingness" at all.
     
  4. Mewtarthio

    Mewtarthio Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,930
    It's more like resignation, really. Bear in mind, vanilla cIV lets you station troops in cities under Hereditary Rule to increase happiness. The citizens aren't exactly celebrating the new and improved police forces.
     
  5. Bahmo

    Bahmo Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    836
    Back when I actually considered suggesting a renaming of their religion, I came up with "Cephalo-Gods." Then I realized that was far more stupid and cheesy than the original, and just gave up.

    At any rate, however, that is my favorite religion. It may be a fraud induced by smoking too much seaweed, but its results speak for itself--siccing the drowns and Stygian guards on the Barbarians of the world is the way to build an awesome naval empire. Besides, octopi are adorable!
     
  6. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,936
    Location:
    Kael's head
    Octopodes. Octopus is from the Greek okto + pous, it is not a Latin 2nd declension noun.


    I also insist that the plurals of hippopotamus and rhinoceros are, respectively, hippopotamoi and rhinoceroi.
     
  7. TheJopa

    TheJopa Šumar

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    2,008
    Location:
    Croatia
    Besides, I'm not a native English speaker but pushing Latin plurals into English, like bonus/boni, just sounds dorky.
    In Croatian, foreign words are still subject to Croatian grammar.
     
  8. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    517
    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    actually I think it should be Octopuses....

    and in some dictionaries Octopi is listed (whilst Octopodes is not).

    From Cambridge English dictionary

    Definition
    octopus Show phonetics
    noun [C] plural octopuses or octopi
    a sea creature with a soft oval body and eight tentacles (= long arm-like parts)

    However Oxford English Dictionary

    octopus
    <snip>

    — USAGE The standard plural in English of octopus is octopuses. However, since the word comes from Greek, the Greek plural form octopodes is still occasionally used. The plural form octopi, formed according to rules for Latin plurals, is incorrect.

    and they have a FAQ entry on the word (and other oddity plurals)

    http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutgrammar/plurals?view=uk

    So in summary with English being a Borg-like language even experts in the field can't make their minds up..
     
  9. Dean_the_Young

    Dean_the_Young Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    811
    Thematic-lorish question here. If Danalin's tormenter is banished and Danalin stops having nightmares to torment Hemah (or rather, has good dreams as well), would the Octopus Overlords 'reform'? Not in the sense of being sane or goody goody, but being benign or even benevolent as often as evil. What with the thousand different agendas and all, I'd figure at least some of them could be more a reflection of Danalin's kindness.
     
  10. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,936
    Location:
    Kael's head
    I think it would be more likely for the Overlords to stop existing than to reform.

    It could be that some of the Overlords are good now, but evil ones seem more common or at least more influential. The overlords never really agree with each other on anything though, so the religious leaders are mostly evil men who pick among the many voices for those that seem darkest, most powerful, and most willing to share that power.

    Although Kael wants to keep the exact details a secret, we know that Danalin is dreaming of Hemah, and it seems likely that it is Hemah who created the Overlords. I tend to think that Hamah is Danalin's "avatar" in creation, and would likely have all the power of a god if he only realized it. Danalin would have spent so much time in his dream that he may consider Hemah his real self now and continue to have such a personality once he awakens. Hemah is not an evil man, but he isn't as gentile as the old Danalin. He seems quite able to experience the whole range of human emotions rather than just manifesting his precept, but tying into his power fully might change that back. It is not in the nature of water to initiate change though (it just goes with the flow rather than initiating or resisting), so even if he does figure things out he may prefer to stick with a mortal life rather than guarding his precept. I don't really know what the effects of that might be. It is possible that realizing he is a god would mean he would be in violation of The Compact, and thus allow other gods to invade and start up another godswar.

    It seems to me that in the Beltane cycle Hemah's vision of a sleeping god when almost killed by Devon may have started to clue him in to his identity. In real life, falling back to sleep right after starting to wake up is often a way to enter lucid dreaming, which may be what happened here. Hemah may have figured out how to control his dreams, hence his decision that he doesn't need the mask or incense. If so, he is now incredibly powerful, essentially a rouge god unbound by any precept that could make his personality or actions predictable. I don't think really knows who he is though, and may be more concerned avenging old insults against him or winning Thessa's heart than with returning to who he used to be. He may have also come to think of his torments as a normal part of life, and see no reason why life shouldn't be like that for everyone.
     
  11. TC01

    TC01 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,216
    Location:
    Irregularly Online
    Does that mean, then, that if someone killed Hemah, Danalin would awake? Or stir, at least?


    Kael said here how Hemah becomes aware of what he is (or rather, how Kael assumes he became aware of what he is):

     
  12. Kael

    Kael Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 6, 2002
    Messages:
    17,401
    Location:
    Ohio
    What happens if Hemah dies is unknown. But the Beltane Cycle does offer the following:

     
  13. seZereth

    seZereth FfH´s art monk(ey)

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,900
    Location:
    Bayreuth
    so... danalin would wake up.. probably?
    hehe... ice stuff for a unique mechanic when Hemah dies in the game :)
     
  14. Darksaber1

    Darksaber1 Secret Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,220
    Location:
    Where you least expect me
    Well, I think Danalin would start awake just as Hemah was killed, just as most people do when they die in a dream.
     
  15. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2007
    Messages:
    15,936
    Location:
    Kael's head
    I think he would start to awaken, but Hastur would intervene to make him quickly go back to sleep. More importantly however, going right back to sleep after starting to wake up is an excellent way to enter a state of Lucid Dreaming, where he may not quite know who he is but would come to doubt the veracity of his dreamworld and could learn to control it. The union of the conscious and unconscious mind in the dream state could make a lucidly dreaming effective dreamer even more powerful and harder to control than a normal god, and is probably not something the Archangel of Mind foresaw.
     
  16. Avahz Darkwood

    Avahz Darkwood Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2001
    Messages:
    1,220
    Location:
    Behind You!!!!
    Haster in a harsh demonic singing voice " go to sleep go to sleep go to sleep my little water goddy..."
     
  17. loocas

    loocas Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2007
    Messages:
    439
    Location:
    Seattle
    I'll feel sorry for Danalin if he wakes up. Imagine opening your eyes and realizing that Hastur has been snuggling you and whispering sweet nothings the whole time you've been in a coma. Aaawkwaaard.

    Hemah might be really hard to kill, if he's Danalin's dream persona. Danalin could also stop dreaming if Hemah dies. That's what's happened to me about four times I can remember: I die in my dream and then stop dreaming, waking up the next morning thinking I should be dead.

    If Danalin becomes lucid, could he abandon Hemah? Would Hemah die?

    What is the result of Hastur's manipulation? Is he the one bringing Danalin's dreams to life?

    Sounds like Danalin's the one who's bringing the dreams to life, while Hastur's just causing nightmares. If it weren't for Hastur, maybe Hemah would be dreaming about ice cream?
     

Share This Page