Off Topic reorganization

[azzaman333]

@Joe- I know I've put a helluva lot of effort into some posts in the mafia forum that don't count for PC, but I certainly wouldn't want PC turned on there, as it'd mean there wouldn't be any room for the spammier comments that exist and make up part of the atmosphere. I don't think it devalues the effort I put into those posts to not want spammy posts disallowed in that forum. Same with IOT. If you had PC, you'd get a moderator presence telling you to cut out the spam all the time, which I'm sure wouldn't be particularly welcome. That's like in this new forum. If we enable PC, we disallow spam and that extra freedom you'd have in what to post. Keep in mind that serial threads don't get PC now, anyway, so at least for them, there's not going to be a change.

So basically, the moderators care more about PC than anyone else on the forum.

 

[Takhisis]

Wait, we might get something good out of this thread after all.

I certainly wouldn't want PC turned on there, as it'd mean there wouldn't be any room for the spammier comments that exist and make up part of the atmosphere.

Why does having PC mean a post is moderated diifferently? Many different forums have PC and each has their own subset of rules and moderators.

 

[Joecoolyo]

@Joe- I know I've put a helluva lot of effort into some posts in the mafia forum that don't count for PC, but I certainly wouldn't want PC turned on there, as it'd mean there wouldn't be any room for the spammier comments that exist and make up part of the atmosphere. I don't think it devalues the effort I put into those posts to not want spammy posts disallowed in that forum. Same with IOT. If you had PC, you'd get a moderator presence telling you to cut out the spam all the time, which I'm sure wouldn't be particularly welcome. That's like in this new forum. If we enable PC, we disallow spam and that extra freedom you'd have in what to post. Keep in mind that serial threads don't get PC now, anyway, so at least for them, there's not going to be a change.

Wait, you're saying this as if its a bad thing. I would love more moderation in IOT, the spammy-ness gets very annoying after a while. PC and a moderator presence would be a godsend.

Please do it!

 

[Tee Kay]

Wait, you're saying this as if its a bad thing. I would love more moderation in IOT, the spammy-ness gets very annoying after a while. PC and a moderator presence would be a godsend.

Please do it!

Oh, oh yes, definitely.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts on the subject:

If encouraging higher quality post is the objective the way you are going about it is strange. Whatever the mods may think of the matter, people like post counts. People like earning post counts. It's not elitism or anything; but it's nice to see something attached to your name that represents your contribution to the community. Post count should be a reward for high quality discussion.

It's strange to see the Management treating a forum like Light OT where they care about a high quality of discussion, the same as Forum Games, where the opposite is true.

 

[classical_hero]

I guess the point is more that if we enable PC, we disallow spam. If we disable PC, we allow spam. People would seem to like a place to be able to be more spammy, so it makes sense for that area not to have PC enabled. People don't necessarily go on posting sprees simply for the sake of PC (though some people might), but some people do post largely for the PC, or would use a spammy forum as an opportunity to post largely for the PC. It's okay to post for the PC if your post is still a positive contribution (why would it matter why you post if your post is still useful to a thread?), but by us not really caring about spam, we're not really caring about whether or not your post is a positive contribution, which would open up for people to post a whole bunch of non-contributory posts just for the PC. As much as we allowing spam in the new forum, we don't want it to turn into a complete spamfest, and enabling PC encourages that.

I don't think PC will be abused that much by just relaxing the rules a bit. Sure there will be posts that are more spammy than regular OT, but that will be expected, but I don't think the spam will get to the Forum Games level, because that will make it a spam fest, so that will be forbidden in the zone.

 

[Plotinus]

Post count, or the lack of it, isn't the main feature of this change, and it's not set in stone. Let's see how things go and we can always tweak it later on.

 

[ori]

Well, there has been an executive decision to use different names for now, but else we are live.

 

[Camikaze]

Please note: if there is a particular thread that you'd like moved over to one of the new forums from the old OT so you can continue discussion (I'll move everything from the last couple of days, but if there's something beyond that...), please report the OP to let us know.

 

[Fetus4188]

Hmm, an interesting idea, I think I could take to it.

 

[Catharsis]

Actually, I think PC in general is more worthless than spam.

We could turn off PC in all forums.

Can we keep PC, and turn off all the forums?

 

[Leoreth]

If the current split of topics is representative of how topics are supposed to be distributed, I don't see a future for this. Several topics that ended up in OT-light, while more confrontational, definitely contain valuable discussion. I think the moderation degrades this kind of thread by declaring them playing field for people who like to post spammy one liners.

Really hope this is an April Fool's joke.

 

[ori]

I don't think you should see ad hoc decisions of how to distribute threads too much of an indication how it will be handled.
Besides the problem with existing threads is that they may have started out differently then they ended up since the attempted split in moderation was not in force before. That said, if you feel a thread was misplaced, please do say so and point to the thread in question or report its OP so we can reconsider.

 

[Camikaze]

Yeah, I'll repost this here because it might have been missed:

Okay, so I've moved a fair bit over.

Please don't take the types of topics you see in this forum at the moment as an indication of where these topics have to go. You can still post most of them in Civilium, and are strongly encouraged to, if you're interested in having an actual discussion of the topic (as most people are when they open a thread), rather than a procession of one-liners. The default for a political thread, for instance, should be the other forum, where the standards are about the same as the old OT (but perhaps a bit higher).

Remember you're always free to have a thread on a topic both here and there. So if you want to post something without the interference of people posting crap and engaging in mind-numbing quote wars, post it in Civilium and you can have a thread here for the one-liners anyway.

 

[Leoreth]

Okay, thanks, haven't seen that.

In my opinion, political discussion in general should not be in OT-Light unless it's really just about making fun of politicians as in gaffe threads like "The Republican's farcical candidates".

Examples for this on the first page of current OT-Light:

- US Supreme Court a court or a judicial body
- Mitt "No Insurance for uninsured with pre-existing conditions"
- Victim of perceived thug may end up in jail
- Want lower gas prices? 'Drill, baby, drill!' Or not.

Just to name some, there are others which are borderline cases (like "Daily Graphs and Charts", which has pictures from all over the place, but often economic topics that spawn serious discussion for a couple of pages).

I don't want to say these threads constitute sufficient high-brow discussion to qualify for OT-serious, but that their very nature of contentious topics of current politics makes moderation very necessary. Putting this kind of thread into a forum where "spamming" will be more encouraged sends the wrong message, in my opinion, and will just lead to even more confrontational discussion.

Now I don't want to advocate moving existing threads around because their tone has been already set, but I think most people will open their threads based on the examples that are set now, and OT-serious will be reserved for more academic discussions while most political threads will end up in OT-light and suffer a further decline in their level of discussion.

 

[Knight-Dragon]

No, the separation of the two forums is not based on content or subject material but on moderation level. The OP choose where to put his/her thread, and we'll moderate accordingly.

 

[Camikaze]

@Leoreth- Yeah, I get that concern, so I'm hoping people will open their new threads here. Civilium isn't meant to be some completely high brow venue, just a place where you actually engage in discussion. The standards aren't all that different than the old OT, but we'll aim to exclude people who destroy threads or lower their tone. I'm hoping that's enough inducement for people to want to post their threads here. The way I see it is that by providing the alternative, where people can opt out of the normal accepted and expected discussion standard, we can actually make political threads and such better without having to be exclusive or anything.

You don't have to have some remarkable insight to post in this forum. We are not applying an RD standard to all threads. It's just a matter of being more stringent with people who ruin threads and constantly bicker.

(I also just moved the Graphs & Charts thread here, because yeah, that's actually pretty good stuff. It just caught up with the rest of the things I was moving over)

 

[Knight-Dragon]

So, if the OP puts it in the FT forum, where it degrades into spam, pointless confrontations and the like, that's their business.

OTOH if you want to discuss the same subject seriously, you can always start a thread on it over here, where we'll keep an eye as always.

 

[Heathcliff]

This is an april joke, right?

 

[ori]

Nope.

 

[Catharsis]

Ooh, can we have the tags back now please? You can infract for their misuse in Serious and let Light have its merry way with them, and the Civ-related forums would also get them back so they might become useful again.