Oppression Olympics

I'm having trouble following, is the Lyme disease angle still going because, despite the decade/minor mea culpa we don't have anything better to do other than realize the Dammaz Kron is struck out in the blood of kings not the blood of the entrant?
 
I'm having trouble following, is the Lyme disease angle still going because, despite the decade/minor mea culpa we don't have anything better to do other than realize the Dammaz Kron is struck out in the blood of kings not the blood of the entrant?
Huh?

:huh:

I was pointing out the irony of someone complaining that his medical issue wasn't taken seriously when he did the same thing to me years ago. I barely tolerate doctors and nurses 'splaining stuff to me (when I know what the problem is and they start yapping about unrelated stuff). I'm definitely not going to feel warm and fuzzy when somebody with no medical credentials starts 'splaining to me here.
 
Here's the irony:

Hygro gets a hunch based on person experience, shares it with Valka.
Valka doesn't believe Hygro, dismisses it out of hand with radio silence.
A decade goes by. Seven years go by (I found the PM)
Hygro comments something about how medical stuff doesn't get believed and gets dismissed.
Valka who did exactly that accuses Hygro of doing it when Hygro did no such thing.


Nowhere do I say Valka is wrong, everywhere Valka says I have no credentials/"yapping" about "unrelated" things/
So who is really dismissing whom, hm?

Valka, I took you very seriously. That's why a naive and younger me thought maybe I could share a resource that I thought, from my perspective, had a chance to be useful to you.

To everyone else: Valka is showing us she is the kind of person who is taking private messages public with the intent of shaming.

Here's my original message.

Hi Valka,

I've paid attention to your discussion of your health over the years. Forgive me that I don't remember every detail exactly but.... The reason I did so is that I myself take thyroid medication for Hashimoto's, and spent a few years recently taking antibiotics to treat a Lyme infection I was born with.

Given your location and proximity to nature, given that you all the sudden went from awake and alert to fatigued and fogged, given that Lyme spirochetes literally attack the thyroid because its tasty meat to them, given that you said you have MS or something similar, I'm willing to bet real money you have Lyme disease.

It's hugely underdiagnosed, and many, many cases of similar chronically-fatiguing-and-other-symptoms-too illnesses are actually misdiagnosed Lyme.

If I'm right, that's more or less good news as it's treatable and occasionally curable. The downside is that most doctors don't understand it, treat it wrong, and there's still a debate going on about the existence of long term, chronic lyme.

It's a silly debate because one side gets its patients better ;)

Anyway, I suggest www.lymedisease.org as they have resources for getting the *right* blood tests (most are useless) and finding Lyme literate doctors. Just ignore that the mainpage is currently a petition before a "continue to site" button.

Best of luck on your journeys
 
Actually the real irony is that after abusing you for making a guess without being a doctor, less than 24 hours laster

Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if your mother should be tested for dementia. I don't know how much older she is than you, but she's old enough for early-onset. Damaging my stuff is what my grandmother started doing (ripping up my clothes, including a brand-new dress I'd bought and claiming, "Oh, I didn't think you wanted it anymore"), and I realize now that it was an early warning sign of the full-blown Alzheimers that killed her a year or two later.
 
We're supposed to be on the same team as targets of Structural Ableism! Crabs in a bucket. :ack:

I was gonna get into microaggressions and all that stuff, but I was kind of hoping we could all round robin a little more first. My relationship to structural ableism in my teen years gave me all kinds of appreciation for oppression that I was blind to before. Fortunately most of the legislative/social justice work had been done before my time for my circumstance.
 
Here's the irony:

Hygro gets a hunch based on person experience, shares it with Valka.
Valka doesn't believe Hygro, dismisses it out of hand with radio silence.
A decade goes by. Seven years go by (I found the PM)
Hygro comments something about how medical stuff doesn't get believed and gets dismissed.
Valka who did exactly that accuses Hygro of doing it when Hygro did no such thing.


Nowhere do I say Valka is wrong, everywhere Valka says I have no credentials/"yapping" about "unrelated" things/
So who is really dismissing whom, hm?

Valka, I took you very seriously. That's why a naive and younger me thought maybe I could share a resource that I thought, from my perspective, had a chance to be useful to you.

To everyone else: Valka is showing us she is the kind of person who is taking private messages public with the intent of shaming.

Here's my original message.

What a disgusting and offensive PM. No wonder she got angry. You should be ashamed of yourself.
 
I've been bitten many times by ticks thanks to pets bringing them in. But ticks require 1 1/2-2 days to transmit Lyme thank god and it should be obvious since it starts with an unusual circular rash followed by fever. I dont know what happens to the animals, if Lyme is around here they've probably gotten a less debilitating version. A pro golfer (cant remember his name) contracted Lyme and it took a while for the proper diagnosis, but it was messing him up.

Would you care to explain the bolded part? Your meaning is unclear.

Caregivers have to walk a fine line between too much detachment and too much concern. The former can lead a loved one to think people dont really care which isn't the case while the latter can be suffocating. Both caregiver and loved one need 'vacations' from the stress, if you take care of someone with eg cancer, dont be too positive, dont keep their hopes up constantly. Dont remind them they have cancer.
 
Here's the irony:

Hygro gets a hunch based on person experience, shares it with Valka.
Valka doesn't believe Hygro, dismisses it out of hand with radio silence.
A decade goes by. Seven years go by (I found the PM)
Hygro comments something about how medical stuff doesn't get believed and gets dismissed.
Valka who did exactly that accuses Hygro of doing it when Hygro did no such thing.
I explained the "radio silence". I do not take it well when people tell me I'm incorrect about my own life and medical diagnoses. You've been around long enough now to know that. It was nice of you to be concerned, but telling me I'm wrong about something that I've lived with for more years than some people on this forum have been alive is not something that will make me say, "Oh, gosh, you're right and my doctors are all wrong and whoever did my blood tests at the lab must be a colossal idiot." After my diagnosis of hypothyroidism, I realized that things hadn't been going right with that since I was a teenager in the '70s. It wasn't until over 20 years later that I finally got proper medication for it.

I did not dismiss your own complaints about what you feel about your own body. If you say that you have whatever medical issues you say you have, I have no reason not to believe you.


Nowhere do I say Valka is wrong, everywhere Valka says I have no credentials/"yapping" about "unrelated" things/
So who is really dismissing whom, hm?
You describe yourself as a "kid" at the time of that conversation. Unless you're Doogie Howser, I can't imagine that you had medical credentials at the time. If you have credentials now, I must have missed the announcement. But either way, it's inappropriate to state that someone on the forum has some sort of medical condition unless they themselves have said it first. If you re-read my post, I said it was the doctors/nurses I've seen in RL who kept yapping about unrelated things, since I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about, right?

Valka, I took you very seriously. That's why a naive and younger me thought maybe I could share a resource that I thought, from my perspective, had a chance to be useful to you.
Thank you. I appreciate the thought. But you didn't take other things into account such as the fact that even though I live in a city with a lot of wooded areas and nature trails that were designed as a migratory wildlife corridor for animals such as deer and bears, that doesn't mean that I spend a lot of time in those areas. I haven't been at the Nature Centre since the year we did that "send a camera around the world" project, and even then I kept to the trails, didn't step off, and had no symptoms of being bitten afterward. I just wanted to go out to the bird blind overlooking the lake, get my photo, and get out of there. Posted warnings about bobcats are nothing to dismiss or joke about. And before that, the last time I was in a forest was in May 2004 in the mountains and it was still winter at that altitude.

To everyone else: Valka is showing us she is the kind of person who is taking private messages public with the intent of shaming.

Here's my original message.
You're the one who brought up the PM. I quoted nothing from it. I loosely paraphrased, based on the impression I had at the time. You've incorrectly stated that I dismissed your own medical issues, which I did not do. You claim I attributed attitudes to you that I actually attributed to doctors/nurses I've encountered in RL.

It was nice that you reached out, but it wasn't necessary. I do not have Lyme disease and never did. Forgive me for believing my own doctors and lab tests over someone who lives thousands of miles away, is not (to my knowledge) a medical professional, and whom I've never met in RL.

And it's poor form to quote PMs in public, although I suppose it's not as bad if you just quote your own, rather than someone else's without permission.
 
I'm impressed that there are two blue emu avatars.
 
I see blue emu spray now being pushed by Johnny Bench

I used the creme many years ago and it messed up my taste buds, dont use that stuff over any major organs, it'll seep into them. Use it on skin, muscles (NOT RIB CAGE muscles) and joints. I wouldn't even risk using on back muscles, keep it away from the torso.
 
You're the one who brought up the PM. I quoted nothing from it. I loosely paraphrased, based on the impression I had at the time.

And it's poor form to quote PMs in public

I disagree that it's poor form to quote *your own stuff* when someone makes a reference to what was said in PM and one wants to make clear what was said.

And unless he modified it, what you said earlier in this thread was not a fair representation of that old PM. There was no claim "you don't have fibromyalgia", and no suggestion to disregard your physicians, more to make sure the one you're seeing is familiar with a particular disease.

You describe yourself as a "kid" at the time of that conversation. Unless you're Doogie Howser, I can't imagine that you had medical credentials at the time. If you have credentials now, I must have missed the announcement. But either way, it's inappropriate to state that someone on the forum has some sort of medical condition unless they themselves have said it first.

Hygro said "willing to bet money on X". That is too strong given the context, but it is not a medical diagnosis nor is it necessarily a denial of a medical condition.

It's also not fair to say that such an action is inappropriate...after all it could be freely ignored. I have had non-medical professional sources lead me to follow up with actual physicians based on their suggestions and receive a useful diagnosis three separate times in my life. One of them was the very issue mentioned earlier in this thread. Yes, it was a professional who wrote the script for diagnostic testing, read the results and prescribed the treatment. Yet that idea came from someone with inferior formal knowledge of medicine to my own, which is itself very limited. The result was a life-altering benefit, which would at minimum have been delayed considerably had I not listened to the point of following up with a physician.

In another one of those three cases, it was in fact a random on the internet in the truest sense. Someone who watched my Civ 4 videos and sent a PM, whose name I'll never know and face I'll never see. Structured differently than Hygro's PM, but same intention; making a suggestion based on limited data to a person who is potentially 1000+ km away. I considered it, asked someone who knew what they were doing, and had improved quality of life for doing so.

I would be significantly worse off right now had people not similarly reached out.

To be frank, doctors are usually right, but not always. Especially with less common things. Blood work to detect some issues won't find others. I also happen to have some familiarity with thyroid for example. There are objective holes in the understanding of thyroid treatment. The most common diagnostic value for it is TSH, but they also test for T4/T3. Patients going on replacement (hypothyroid) sometimes gain a large amount of weight in a short period of time. Despite that this is *usually* a red flag in medicine, you can find quite a few stories of people online complaining how their previous routine ballooned them since taking a drug that would supposedly make weight loss easier. Their physicians often ask for a lifestyle change. Given 40+ pounds later on same caloric intake for a large number of reported cases I call BS. For MOST medications this is a non-trivial side effect and not okay.

What does the literature say? Comprehensive literature on it doesn't exist, to my knowledge (unless it's been released in the last 12-18 months and I missed it). I have access to paid databases, and I looked extensively (few hundred hours on things related to the topic). I also found mixed data on levothyroxine only vs dessicated. Even more interestingly, I've heard multiple actual physicians tell me that T2 (diiodothyronine) doesn't exist, or doesn't do anything. That's false. There is SOME literature on it (plenty more than linked, even some old experiments on rats), but there are also crazy bodybuilders who take this stuff. It's TSH suppressive. The lead diagnostic tool for diagnosing the condition can be fooled (is it actually fooled? Literature suggests T2 impacting metabolism differently than T4 converted to T3, but certainly impacting it) by taking something that supposedly doesn't do anything, according to some professional physicians...and there's literature to back that fact.

So as someone experiencing negative symptoms, it's worth it to consider suggestions, to take them up with physicians as ideas to consider. Some, possibly even many will be junk or off base, but as human beings doctors can't consider every possible contingency at all times, especially if they're not subspecialized in the issue. What they can do is utilize their superior training and knowledge to actually act on something that is still causing suffering, possibly finding a solution. Given that I had a major life turnaround, I would not be so quick to look down on random advice, even if you're pretty sure it's wrong this particular time.
 
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It's also not fair to say that such an action is inappropriate...after all it could be freely ignored. I have had non-medical professional sources lead me to follow up with actual physicians based on their suggestions and receive a useful diagnosis three separate times in my life. One of them was the very issue mentioned earlier in this thread. Yes, it was a professional who wrote the script for diagnostic testing, read the results and prescribed the treatment. Yet that idea came from someone with inferior formal knowledge of medicine to my own, which is itself very limited. The result was a life-altering benefit, which would at minimum have been delayed considerably had I not listened to the point of following up with a physician.

In another one of those three cases, it was in fact a random on the internet in the truest sense. Someone who watched my Civ 4 videos and sent a PM, whose name I'll never know and face I'll never see. Structured differently than Hygro's PM, but same intention; making a suggestion based on limited data to a person who is potentially 1000+ km away. I considered it, asked someone who knew what they were doing, and had improved quality of life for doing so.

I would be significantly worse off right now had people not similarly reached out.

To be frank, doctors are usually right, but not always. Especially with less common things. Blood work to detect some issues won't find others. I also happen to have some familiarity with thyroid for example. There are objective holes in the understanding of thyroid treatment. The most common diagnostic value for it is TSH, but they also test for T4/T3. Patients going on replacement (hypothyroid) sometimes gain a large amount of weight in a short period of time. Despite that this is *usually* a red flag in medicine, you can find quite a few stories of people online complaining how their previous routine ballooned them since taking a drug that would supposedly make weight loss easier. Their physicians often ask for a lifestyle change. Given 40+ pounds later on same caloric intake for a large number of reported cases I call BS. For MOST medications this is a non-trivial side effect and not okay.

What does the literature say? Comprehensive literature on it doesn't exist, to my knowledge (unless it's been released in the last 12-18 months and I missed it). I have access to paid databases, and I looked extensively (few hundred hours on things related to the topic). I also found mixed data on levothyroxine only vs dessicated. Even more interestingly, I've heard multiple actual physicians tell me that T2 (diiodothyronine) doesn't exist, or doesn't do anything. That's false. There is SOME literature on it (plenty more than linked, even some old experiments on rats), but there are also crazy bodybuilders who take this stuff. It's TSH suppressive. The lead diagnostic tool for diagnosing the condition can be fooled (is it actually fooled? Literature suggests T2 impacting metabolism differently than T4 converted to T3, but certainly impacting it) by taking something that supposedly doesn't do anything, according to some professional physicians...and there's literature to back that fact.

So as someone experiencing negative symptoms, it's worth it to consider suggestions, to take them up with physicians as ideas to consider. Some, possibly even many will be junk or off base, but as human beings doctors can't consider every possible contingency at all times, especially if they're not subspecialized in the issue. What they can do is utilize their superior training and knowledge to actually act on something that is still causing suffering, possibly finding a solution. Given that I had a major life turnaround, I would not be so quick to look down on random advice, even if you're pretty sure it's wrong this particular time.
Hygro's specific suggestion was dubious at best, and it sounds like he delivered it as though he were confident he knew what the problem was, which is inappropriate. It's totally reasonable to just ignore someone who acts like that.

(edit: Somehow I missed that he quoted his PM here. Reading it, it sounds perfectly fine. There were reasons to believe he was incorrect, but it was a genuine attempt to help rather than an arrogant and dubious diagnosis.)

Still, I am a huge fan of patients and laypeople in general giving each other unofficial medical advice, with a caution that they're not doctors. I'm also a fan of patients making their own medical decisions and having the freedom to take risks despite never having been to medical school. Doctors don't and can't know everything about their particular medical field, and they rarely have the time or inclination to spend hours sifting through medical journals looking for the newest data on any given patient's specific set of symptoms. A motivated patient who is good enough at reading the literature may know considerably more than their own doctor on their condition, especially if said doctor isn't hyper-specialized for their condition. And that's not even getting into the situation where the doctor is crap and won't listen to their patient even if the patient suggests a common condition that would explain what is going on.

What you did here is awesome. A textbook example of how amateur medical discussion and research can pay off big time.
 
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Lets see, I'm mostly Irish so my people spent a good chunk of the post ice age period huddled in our little corner of NW Europe suffering attacks from the neighbors... And we need not apply, hell, Sheriff Bart had to stand up for us when the good people of Rock Ridge wouldn't let us in.
 
Hygro's PM looks like well-intentioned friendly advice to me. May be unasked for, but I don't see a reason to get angry because of it. If I got this kind of message, I'd thank author for advice and felt free to heed or ignore it :)
 
I feel oppressed by general stupidity.
And that's a effing big oppression, believe me.
 
Hygro's PM looks like well-intentioned friendly advice to me. May be unasked for, but I don't see a reason to get angry because of it. If I got this kind of message, I'd thank author for advice and felt free to heed or ignore it :)
You had to have been there at the time. It felt like someone ignoring what I'd said and saying, "No, you don't have that, you have this." And given some of the goarounds I've had with the medical profession over the years, I get testy when people question what I know to be true, or at least the most likely explanation.

I realize now that he meant well and went to some effort to let me know of his findings, but I knew then that Lyme disease wasn't the culprit, nor is it now.

And after I first heard of Lyme disease, I mentally reviewed whether or not I've been careless in forested areas, and realized the only time when I could have been at risk was during my childhood, when we spent summers in British Columbia. At that time I did roam around wearing shorts, not always wearing socks, or even shoes. I got lots of mosquito bites over the years, but never had any rashes of the sort associated with Lyme disease. Not that we'd heard of it back then in the '60s and '70s. As an adult I cover up when I go outside, since I don't tolerate either sun or mosquitoes well.
 
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