Poll for 2020 election

[Kyriakos]

The comparison is irrelevant to the point at hand. You could have referenced almost any centrist in history, but happened to pick the Saint of Sleaze.

Suggest you leave it here before I start to wonder if there's more to it than just a mistaken assumption that I supported Blair.

I mentioned Blair only cause Corbyn was mentioned two posts up

 

[Winston Hughes]

There will still be plenty of space in which to nurture a comfy persecution complex. The entertainment industry will keep conditioning the population to accept left wing narratives. The sociology departments will still teach critical theory, as they've always mysteriously done since the early stages of the cold war. And the news media will keep being a crutch for the du jour progressive agenda.

Hey, at least we have some common ground. Many sociology departments are indeed hotbeds of random, self-defeating idiocy.

Thankfully, their influence is extremely limited.

Beyond that, I think you're just seeing what fits your chosen narrative. There's plenty of nonsense from all sides when it comes to the media. Best thing is try to find a decent balance by frequently changing up your sources and always looking for good arguments against whatever you're believing at the time.

 

[innonimatu]

Biden is a front, a puppet for the most corrupt and vile people in the DNC to rule. They intend to either replace him with one of their own (Clinton?) or hide behind a senile president and do their worst without fear or shame.

 

[Winston Hughes]

Biden is a front, a puppet for the most corrupt and vile people in the DNC to rule. They intend to either replace him with one of their own (Clinton?) or hide behind a senile president and do their worst without fear or shame.

Are you doing parody now?

Or have you finally taken the well-trod path from left-wing anarchist to right-wing authoritarian?

 

[innonimatu]

I''m just less hostile to open adversaries than to traitors. Parties or people within who claim one thing and do the opposite

 

[Winston Hughes]

I''m just less hostile to open adversaries than to traitors. Parties or people within who claim one thing and do the opposite

So it doesn't matter how bad things get or how much suffering is caused, just so long as the people in charge aren't the kind of hypocrites that annoy you.

A good few steps down the road, then.

 

[Kyriakos]

So it doesn't matter how bad things get or how much suffering is caused, just so long as the people in charge aren't the kind of hypocrites that annoy you.

A good few steps down the road, then.

He isn't telling you how to vote; merely expressing how he would vote.
If people can hold their nose and vote for someone they don't like, good for them. Not seeing how it is somehow more noble.

 

[Birdjaguar]

You seem very much in the "if you're not with us, you're against us," line of thinking. Just like a certain Senator from the 1950's named Joe McCarthy.

Just like patriots and loyalists in 1776
Just like Jacobins and royalists in 1789
Just like Trump and, well, lots and lots of folks
Just like Patine and the rest of cfcot?

Pretending that there are only two sides oversimplifies things to make them meaningless. Usually, it is a tactic to divide people and prevent compromise.

Blair is "centrist", like Biden and the rest of the merry group. In the Us branch they are funded by pharma companies and wall-street. Bernie's campaign was 100% against those interests, so saying any voter of his should logically shrug and do a u-turn... is likely not going to cut it. I personally can see how (some, not all, and imo not most either) a Bernie voter will just abstain.

There is still, apparently, a small chance that Biden will be potus, but Trump is the favorite. Maybe if the DNC didn't keep promoting centrist shady figures who go on losing (Kerry, Hillary, Biden), Trump wouldn't get a second term either. Or even a first term

So Trump is the favorite now? Among republicans? Among Greeks? Among members of Trumps Cabinet? What a stupid statement. You've swung from Bernie to Trump pretty quickly.

As of now 538 has Trump's approval rating falling to 42% and his disapproval rising to 53%.

 

[innonimatu]

I think his totally incompetent handling of this virus pandemic will be the end of him. He'd win otherwise.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Well I guess we'll get to see if all his older evangelical voters are literally prepared to die on the hill defending him.

 

[Birdjaguar]

More Trump rallies! More Trump rallies! More Trump rallies! Not really; we should cancel all of them, including the conventions.

 

[innonimatu]

I think his totally incompetent handling of this virus pandemic will be the end of him. He'd win otherwise.

I'm going to temper this with just one caveat: presenting Clinton in any way or form as a contender in the election can still deliver it to Trump, despite anything he does or fails at.

 

[Kyriakos]

Just like patriots and loyalists in 1776
Just like Jacobins and royalists in 1789
Just like Trump and, well, lots and lots of folks
Just like Patine and the rest of cfcot?

Pretending that there are only two sides oversimplifies things to make them meaningless. Usually, it is a tactic to divide people and prevent compromise.

So Trump is the favorite now? Among republicans? Among Greeks? Among members of Trumps Cabinet? What a stupid statement. You've swung from Bernie to Trump pretty quickly.

As of now 538 has Trump's approval rating falling to 42% and his disapproval rising to 53%.

You seem to care an awful lot about myself not being american.
Better first remove the beam from your own eye.

 

[Winston Hughes]

I'm going to temper this with just one caveat: presenting Clinton in any way or form as a contender in the election can still deliver it to Trump, despite anything he does or fails at.

The dems screwed up big time railroading Clinton to the 2016 nom. It was an exercise in hubris.

This time around, they've run a much better game. Along the way there's been plenty of genuine competition between different ideas, approaches, and personalities.

I understand why, in the wake of all that, many on the left find Biden a terribly lacklustre candidate.

But I also think it's worth pointing out that, if there's any group in the US that knows how to fight right-wing populism, it's older black democrats in the south.

 

[Patine]

That's the best you've got?

The presidential election is a zero-sum game. There is plenty of room for nuance in the lead-up, but when it comes to the crunch you're either helping to get rid of Trump or you're not. There is literally no middle ground.

Sorry, but I'm not a follower or devotee of the doctrines and beliefs of Zoroaster or Mani...

 

[Patine]

Just like patriots and loyalists in 1776
Just like Jacobins and royalists in 1789
Just like Trump and, well, lots and lots of folks
Just like Patine and the rest of cfcot?

Pretending that there are only two sides oversimplifies things to make them meaningless. Usually, it is a tactic to divide people and prevent compromise.

So Trump is the favorite now? Among republicans? Among Greeks? Among members of Trumps Cabinet? What a stupid statement. You've swung from Bernie to Trump pretty quickly.

As of now 538 has Trump's approval rating falling to 42% and his disapproval rising to 53%.

You can delete me from the list if you've ACTUALLY been reading and paying attention to my posts. Otherwise, I'll chalk it up to more disingenuous slander that some posters sling at me. As for the three actually VALID examples, they were very awful in their day and how they handled such matters, as well. And I am nothing like Trump. Though some posters here who claim to hate him thoroughly and fall him a "Fascist," and such, are much more in his vein. Though I have a strong opinion, and have criticized many things, I have never presented anything as a "binary choice," as being the ONLY possibilities.

 

[Birdjaguar]

@Patine I did put a ? next to you.

And edited my original post.

 

[Patine]

@Patine I did put a ? next to you.

And edited my original post.

Well, thank-you! At least someone's reading my posts.

 

[Berzerker]

I mean, it's pretty basic.

The problems with previous democratic candidates and presidents are well known and well publicised.

And none of them come close to being anywhere near as hateful, criminal or dangerous as Trump.

Attempts to say otherwise from Trump supporters who own it - fair enough, he's your man and supports the goals you want to see achieved. I won't ever agree with you, but I can respect you for being straight about it.

The ones who pretend to be progressives are just pathetic, though.

Trump didn't invade Libya and Syria, that was our beloved Saint Barack 'I won the Nobel Peace Prize' of Obama

But they are acting like it.

Perhaps I'm just giving them too much credit for not seeing how idiotic it would be for a genuine progressive to think like that.

Edit: Also, to be clear, while I do think it's immoral if people just decide that they personally can't stomach voting for the lesser evil, it's much worse to go around promoting that choice. To do so is to actively promote the greater evil.

Guess it depends on how we define the lesser/greater evil... I define it by how many people are put in the ground, Bush and Obama for the win.

What kind of liberal wouldn't vote to get rid of Trump?

One who cant support a man who voted for invading Iraq and various racist crime bills

Biden ain't Blair

Both helped lie their countries into a war with Iraq... evil enuff 4 ya?

Sorry, dont mean to single you out... You're just the most recent advocate of 'the lesser evil' telling us to vote for Biden. I already have enough sin to account for, dont need Biden on the ledger too.

 

[Lexicus]

One who cant support a man who voted for invading Iraq and various racist crime bills

So instead you support the guy who's drastically increased the civilian death rate of the US military operations he's inherited, whose policies are more egregiously and cartoonishly racist than any postww2 President.

Sorry, dont mean to single you out... You're just the most recent advocate of 'the lesser evil' telling us to vote for Biden. I already have enough sin to account for, dont need Biden on the ledger too.

So, since you're taking about items on the ledger...do you think Trump's got more weight of sin, or Biden?