Poll: Usage of the term "Social Justice Warrior"

[sophie]

The thing is, I'm trying to think of a place that socially, culturally, and materially hasn't changed much since the 15th century and all I'm getting are some Berber nomads and some pseudo-uncontacted peoples.

I sincerely doubt it would apply even to those groups.

 

[inthesomeday]

Well, some leftists obviously still like Castro-esque long nonsense rants... Yawn.

Lota of noise about new ideas, the left evolving, blah blah blah... This new idea of yours is Marxism? It stinks like a rotting corpse. Tried and failed.

You don't represent anything new.

Marxism is not a new idea, and if you were listening you'd know I'm not making that claim. Marxism has little more practical use today than as a method for analyzing history.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Unless it's Marxist-Lennonist..

 

[luiz]

Marxism is not a new idea, and if you were listening you'd know I'm not making that claim. Marxism has little more practical use today than as a method for analyzing history.

Analyzing history for what? To discover historical laws?

 

[Dachs]

To be fair, the protestants were busy burning witches at the time. The inquisition tortured and murdered people more for political reasons than religious ones, it seems. No moral panics and bloodthirsty pogroms, just a steady stream of oppression that any tyranny could be proud of.

Eh. I'm not white-knighting Protestantism or anything. (Although everybody was burning witches in the seventeenth century, including, apparently, the indigenous population of the eastern United States. I guess it was a famine thing. But there are plenty of "moral purity" and "zeal" accusations to throw at various Protestants apart from witch-burning.)

And, sure, the Inquisition was often more than just a tool of religious oppression, but it still was a tool of religious oppression, and its explicitly stated objective was moral purity. A thing can be more than one kind of thing at a time: while the Inquisition was frequently employed as a tool of political control, it was also a tool for enforcing moral purity. Often it was both of them at the same time.

The Inquisition was frequently a tool for political control. If you look at victims of actual religious nutcases and moral panic - say, people executed for witchcraft - then that list will be entirely dominated by protestant countries. The moral panics of Americans are a constant source of both amusement and perplexity to the Catholic world (a boob was exposed on open tv! Bring out the pitchforks!).

Calvinists are almost by definition religious nutcase, the pilgrims were religious nutcases, and SJWs behave like religious nutcases. An example of a religious nutcase engaged in a good cause? John Brown. I'm sure he is seen as a good role model by SJWs, but the man clearly had grave mental issues driven by an extreme religious zeal.

Missing the point. I never said that Protestantism had nothing to do with moral purity or zeal, I said that Catholicism unquestionably did have to do with moral purity and zeal.

If there is anything about the Brazilian culture that doesn't take "moral purity and zeal" seriously, then it does not spring from Catholicism.

 

[Tee Kay]

Answering the OP and completely ignoring whatever is being talked about now, I mostly use it ironically, depends on the audience and the context. If I'm being completely serious, I will say "so-called SJWs" or "social justice warriors", with those quotation marks. The same way I treat slippery phrases like "political correctness"; it doesn't describe a thing that actually exists so much as people's perceptions of a thing.

 

[innonimatu]

Well, some leftists obviously still like Castro-esque long nonsense rants... Yawn.

Don't insult Castro that way, please! He actually knew what "racism" meant, and helped overthrow a few racist regimes. His idea of marxism was put into practice and cut off the last hopes of the apartheid in South Africa.

And, sure, the Inquisition was often more than just a tool of religious oppression, but it still was a tool of religious oppression, and its explicitly stated objective was moral purity. A thing can be more than one kind of thing at a time: while the Inquisition was frequently employed as a tool of political control, it was also a tool for enforcing moral purity. Often it was both of them at the same time.

True, it was, visiting inquisitors checked with parish priests, carried out investigations into ordinary people's lives, and kept the population in line with the moral prescriptions of the catholic church. The church had its own "stasi-lite", and it lasted for a couple of centuries! The torturing and murdering, while very selective and used for political purposes, also served also the purpose of making these inquisitors feared.
I was only trying to say that this political police of the church also served to block the moral panics that occasionally took over other portions of Europe - they valued stability very much and went very rationally about their application of repression.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Leftists" are the loons of the left, the extremists who look at everything through a particular lens without being able to judge things from any other perspective, one does not have to be a loon to have views that are left wing, and outside your circle of extremists, everybody acknowledges that there is more to the left than your group of extremists. If that were all that there is, I would not consider myself to be "left wing", because there would be nothing of value to be had there.

Nobody uses the word "leftist" like this.

If there is anything about the Brazilian culture that doesn't take "moral purity and zeal" seriously, then it does not spring from Catholicism.

Still, much as it pains me to agree with Luiz- and I mean genuine, physical discomfort, please, somebody, send a doctor- there's something about the particular expression of "moral purity and zeal" by the progressivism-as-identity left that smacks of a certain kind of conservative Protestantism. It's the Elect, basically, the performance of inherent and unlearned virtue, of just getting it right every time because you're better, where in Catholicism, public piety tends more towards ostentatious displays of atonement. If "SJWs" (yuck) reflected a Catholic rather than Protestant cultural background, we'd see less call-out posts and more confession posts, wokeness- piety- communicated less though an exaggerated awareness of the failings of others, and more an exaggerated awareness of your own failings.

Where I'd disagree with Luiz (ah, such a soothing balm!) is that I don't think this is just some pathology of Anglo-American culture. I think that a lot of the specific individuals involved come from relatively conservative Protestant background, or very highly assimilated into such backgrounds, and have kept a lot of the basic moral framework while switching up the reference points. And it makes sense, because it's precisely the kind of people for whom progressivism is a discovery, is something consciously entered into, who are going to adopt it as a conscious identity, while for people who grew up in a more-or-less progressive environment, it's going to operate more as a set of basic assumptions and anxieties.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

Addressing the OP: It's definitely an insult term of contempt - except when it's a joke, which is frequently.

 

[inthesomeday]

Valessa, I don't think anybody considers you to be left wing except maybe yourself and Akka. Saying "gay people are people" or "black people are also people" does not make you left wing, as these are statements of fact.

 

[Ryika]

Nobody uses the word "leftist" like this.

I do. Thesis proven wrong.

Valessa, I don't think anybody considers you to be left wing except maybe yourself and Akka. Saying "gay people are people" or "black people are also people" does not make you left wing, as these are statements of fact.

The Political Compass has me on the left (around -5), according to the Wahl-O-Mat I was right about voting for "Die Linke", the most leftest of parties in Germany, in discussion forums that are not as biased towards the left as Civfanatics I am usually called a disgusting Leftist way more often than I am called a Nazi, and in the American Election the person with whose political views my views aligned best with Sanders.

So I think it's pretty safe to say that by any reasonable standard, I am on the left. It's just that you're in a club of extremists who have completely lost their perspective on politics.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Having other people define your political standings is always humorous, and often contradictory.

 

[Akka]

Sorry Valessa, but I think our friend has a point. I thought I was left-wing, but that's only because I used completely outdated definitions, and not the Correct SJW Definition Defining Truth®.
When opening my eyes and using the updated Political Compass, in fact I fall squarely in rightist territory :

I stand corrected, I was clearly in the wrong about my political leaning, but thankfully some 16 year old having read radfem philosophy online set me straight.

 

[luiz]

Missing the point. I never said that Protestantism had nothing to do with moral purity or zeal, I said that Catholicism unquestionably did have to do with moral purity and zeal.

If there is anything about the Brazilian culture that doesn't take "moral purity and zeal" seriously, then it does not spring from Catholicism.

I don't know, I see the same relative laid back approach to morality in the European Latin countries as I see in Brazil (though naturally not as extreme as in Brazil, they're still uptight Europeans ).

We (Latin catholics) seem to be more comfortable or at least conformed with our own immorality, and with that of the world as a whole. The mark of a practicing catholic is an eternally guilty conscience; the mark of a practicing Protestant is an eternally pointed finger - it's not wild to see the relation to the SJW's obsession with "exposing and shaming". Moral panics are likewise a characteristic of Anglo-American society, and largely absent of Latin ones. Examples abound, from Monica Lewinsky (nobody cares about the President's sex life in Latin countries) to Boobgate.

Similar observations have been made by European latins too. And it's not a recent thing. Stendhal wrote on the épilogue of the Red and the Black, almost 200 years ago:

The inconvenience of the reign of public opinion is that though, of course, it secures liberty, it meddles with what it has nothing to do with—private life, for example. Hence the gloominess of America and England.

I think it's fair to argue that the influence of the protestant nutcases created a society which is incredibly resistant to tyranny (unlike our latin societies), and with a remarkable work ethic (also unlike our Latin societies). But it also created a judgmental, moral panicky and holier-than-thou society. SJWs are the heirs of judgmental, witch-burning Puritans, and this is very transparent.

 

[Traitorfish]

I do. Thesis proven wrong.

And spiders georg eats ten thousand spiders a day, it doesn't amount to a norm.

 

[Ryika]

And spiders georg eats ten thousand spiders a day, it doesn't amount to a norm.

Whether it's the norm was not the premise of your thesis, your thesis was that "Nobody uses the word "leftist" like this.". That is a thesis that can be disproved by showing one person who does use the word like that, and conveniently, I do use the word like that.

So apparently, your goal was not to show that nobody uses the word like that, instead, your thesis was just malformed. Your actual thesis should have been something along the lines of: "That's not how the word is normally used by most people.", and yes, that thesis would probably be correct. For most people, a leftist is somebody who advocates for left-wing politics. However, the term is also used with negative associations for people who have wandered too far towards the cliff that looms at the end of the political spectrum, not as widely as the original definition, but it is certainly used that way.

So I maintain that my usage of the word was correct. Given that it has caused some confusion, it might have been better to just say: "Akka may not be as far to the left as you are, but he certainly falls into the left part of the scale", but then I would have had to dismantle that whole nonsense about "Leftism is by and by opposed to capitalism." as well, because by saying that and other things, inthesomeday himself did use a definition of leftism that is not the mainstream definition, and had instead already narrowed it down to his own version of what he considers a "real" leftist. I found it easier to just allow him to have the word "Leftism" and add the negative connotations to it that will inevitably become more mainstream, if he and his clique manage to redefine the word that way.

 

[Light Cleric]

So is there a way to change your vote in this new layout because I voted for the wrong option lol (I picked #3 instead of #4, the term is dumb and needs to go by the wayside)

Just copy/pasting what I said last time this came up:
I just want to say that I think the term "SJW" is atrocious and really should be retired along with a lot of other dumb terms(I need to make a thread on this later), if for no other reason than it makes social justice itself have a stigma. The people I see use that term the most are rather cringe-inducing and not the kind I like to associate with.

 

[Traitorfish]

Whether it's the norm was not the premise of your thesis, your thesis was that "Nobody uses the word "leftist" like this.". That is a thesis that can be disproved by showing one person who does use the word like that, and conveniently, I do use the word like that.

I meant "nobody who counts". It seemed more polite to let you work it out for yourself, rather than spell it out in public.

You try to do somebody a kindness...!

 

[Lexicus]

Analyzing history for what? To discover historical laws?

Dogmatic Marxism is awful, that doesn't mean Marx is useless.

When opening my eyes and using the updated Political Compass, in fact I fall squarely in rightist territory :

Yet another example of Political Compass Ontology. Simply brilliant.

 

[Traitorfish]

The political compass is just the D&D alignment chart for people who own a Gadsden flag.