Postmortem on Mueller

[El_Machinae]

This entire forum has already discussed the distinction between collusion and conspiracy. The report goes on to clarify how the two words will be treated as different in order to avoid confusion. The report also barely uses the word 'collusion', because they've established that they will use the word 'conspiracy'.

To the report-writers, the two words don't mean the same thing. The preamble of how they're similar is used to later clarify why the writers later choose to distinguish the two words.

I've long called the report a 'nothingburger'. The base doesn't care about obstruction when it's their own team doing it. They didn't care about the attempt to conspire, either. The debate has stopped treating the system as competitors.

But still, harping on the fact that 'collusion' and 'conspiracy' are not treated as synonyms in the report is pretty stupid.

 

[Farm Boy]

It's not a nothingburger, it's just nobody is getting exactly what they want out of it except Pelosi and Assclown who both get to say they are "right."

Mueller wants people to pay attention to the information warfare ongoing against the election systems, everyone else is busy(nsfw, language).

 

[Lexicus]

Again the issue is that you don't choose ridiculous ways to take Trump out of power. The Russiagate thing is a non-issue, and was so from the start. Trump is an open racist/senile/ignorant/a clown and the establishment tries to take him down using the only made up negative story about him there is :/

I've been saying the Russiagate thing was a political non-starter for a long time.

 

[Ajidica]

I've been saying the Russiagate thing was a political non-starter for a long time.

If we are being honest, it had the potential to be a really big story. Ignoring Steele's 'dodgy dossier', there was a lot out there suggesting some level of coordination between the Russian government/ Russian parastatals and the Trump campaign. As time went on and we learned more things, it became clear that while the Trump campaign acted like grubby, sociopathic little turds, they didn't have any real coordination with the Russian attempt at election interference.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, they tried to. They just failed to.

 

[Berzerker]

I'm sure getting grilled for 7 hours straight might make you slip up every now an then.

I think they had an hour break but I agree, he's old and clearly had trouble keeping track of longer questions. But this isn't just evidence Mueller's mind is suffering from old age, it also shows his involvement in, and oversight of, the investigation may have been lacking.

And he didn't bother looking into possible Russian efforts to feed our government fictions via the Democrats even though his mandate was Russian meddling. To a Republican president that would be a concern given the fact Mueller's team was dominated by Democrats including Hillary supporters.

If we look at the people who Trump wanted to get rid of, they were suspected of bias and partisanship, or their not-so-agile leader. Yeah, if I was President I'd want to get an entirely new team investigating me. I'd want an AG watching out for me too. Trump knew the dossier was BS, he knew there was no conspiracy, and he knew the people investigating him were suspect.

He wont be convicted of obstruction, not by a jury... They'd recommend charging the Clinton campaign and maybe a few FBI personnel.

What is it you are smoking and where can I get some?

If we are being honest

Hey high quality person, where'd you go?

This entire forum has already discussed the distinction between collusion and conspiracy. The report goes on to clarify how the two words will be treated as different in order to avoid confusion. The report also barely uses the word 'collusion', because they've established that they will use the word 'conspiracy'.

To the report-writers, the two words don't mean the same thing. The preamble of how they're similar is used to later clarify why the writers later choose to distinguish the two words.

I've long called the report a 'nothingburger'. The base doesn't care about obstruction when it's their own team doing it. They didn't care about the attempt to conspire, either. The debate has stopped treating the system as competitors.

But still, harping on the fact that 'collusion' and 'conspiracy' are not treated as synonyms in the report is pretty stupid.

The report said they are synonyms, Mueller testified they aren't. Its not the end of the world but it is a contradiction and noteworthy.

 

[Ajidica]

Hey high quality person, where'd you go?

Try asking Trump's sons, Uday and Qusay. Trump called them High Quality People and if Dingus Jr counts as High Quality, well, I definitely do.

 

[Berzerker]

You didn't read your link and you called me a liar and ran away when I showed you were wrong about it.

 

[El_Machinae]

The report said they are synonyms, Mueller testified they aren't. Its not the end of the world but it is a contradiction and noteworthy.

Oh my God. You don't need to type something you've already typed. There's two parts to that discussion. The first is that they are often synonyms, and the second is that the report won't treat them as synonyms ongoing

It's literally the next set of paragraphs

I'm done explaining this to you. You think it's an important point. If you weren't partisan, you would understand the simple error that you're making

 

[Berzerker]

Oh, I see now, thx for explaining it

ur right Lex, sorry OH and Kyr, I led you down the wrong path

 

[Zkribbler]

They didn't care about the attempt to conspire, either.

Attempted conspiracy is conspiracy. What was missing was evidence that Trump agreed to conspire.

 

[Berzerker]

I was accused of partisanship for believing a progressive Democrat, thats gotta be a first around here

 

[Cloud_Strife]

A progressive Democrat who consistantly goes to bat for conservatives and republicans.

Spoiler :

 

[Kyriakos]

Oh, I see now, thx for explaining it

ur right Lex, sorry OH and Kyr, I led you down the wrong path

I knew I shouldn't trust the internet

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Now that Mueller has issued warnings about election interference and McConnell and Co have shot down efforts to secure the election - I have to ask why? Like, do they think that if they pass election security reforms, that it would make the GOP look bad because they benefited from election interference last time around? Or is it more nefarious in that they actually want more foreign interference to help them in elections?

 

[Arakhor]

Playing to the "liberals gotta cry" movement, probably.

 

[El_Machinae]

Also, Trump has called Mueller's efforts treasonous and high crimes. Now, either he's trying to dilute the meaning of these words, or we should expect an arrest soon because the president's words matter

 

[Arakhor]

Treason is the new thing for "I hate your politics and it shouldn't be allowed". We've seen that constantly in the Brexit crisis.

 

[Lexicus]

Now that Mueller has issued warnings about election interference and McConnell and Co have shot down efforts to secure the election - I have to ask why? Like, do they think that if they pass election security reforms, that it would make the GOP look bad because they benefited from election interference last time around? Or is it more nefarious in that they actually want more foreign interference to help them in elections?

I think it is mostly the first thing. They've spent months and months handwaving the whole issue of Russian assistance to Trump; it would look stupid if they actually addressed the issue of election security.

I dunno, maybe that's wrong because they sure don't seem to have no shame when it comes to defending Trump in other contexts, but it would be my guess.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yeah I guess I don't understand the 'make us look bad' angle because it's not like anyone in the country really wants foreign interference. Like, this seems like something we all agree on and should be an easy thing to do politically. Given how the GOP has been acting, I really do suspect that someone like McConnell wants more foreign assistance going forward.

Treason is the new thing for "I hate your politics and it shouldn't be allowed". We've seen that constantly in the Brexit crisis.

That word has lost its meaning.