Postmortem on Mueller

[Berzerker]

its nice to see a witness give short answers rather than ramble and delay

wrt the Steele dossier, I think Mueller said thats under investigation
so its off limits

 

[hobbsyoyo]

There is a second part of the testimony coming up with a different Congressional committee that is supposedly going to focus more the Russian angle of the Mueller investigation.

I missed about half of this morning's testimony and I was pleasantly surprised that the Republican members weren't screaming at Mueller the way they did during the Kavanaugh hearings though I may have missed it.

its nice to see a witness give short answers rather than ramble and delay

It's usually the congresscritters that do the rambling, not the witnesses.

 

[Tristan_C]

wrt the Steele dossier, I think Mueller said thats under investigation
so its off limits

Everything seems to be off limits with him, or "outside his purview." The report omitted topics within its subject matter which are already part of the body common knowledge, which is to say, the Mueller report's information (which was described as thorough) is in truth strictly inferior and more limited than what everyone could already search up on the internet at the time of its release. This lack of coverage gives him the prerogative to not answer anything. He even said under oath he didn't know what Fusion GPS was. Claimed its engagement with the Russians who set up the Trump Tower meeting was "outside his purview."

I missed about half of this morning's testimony and I was pleasantly surprised that the Republican members weren't screaming at Mueller the way they did during the Kavanaugh hearings though I may have missed it.

Louis Gohmert yelled at him for quite a while before you made it in. They had been discussing Mueller's staffing choices for his investigative team.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

And of course the DoJ and White House instructed Mueller not to talk about things outside the report...then they all attacked him for refusing to answer questions outside of the report. The intent of course is to make him look like he's hiding something or disloyal somehow to discredit everything he's done. I feel like this is the kind of thing that always happens in government but it's reached new heights of absurdity in the last decade.

 

[Tristan_C]

The point was that these crucial pieces should have been investigated by the team, and weren't. They are part of the episodes he describes in the report. We already know the facts even before the report was released, and thus the report is strictly inferior to common knowledge, but his investigation's one-sided nature, its omissions and lack of thoroughness, is giving him cover.

 

[El_Machinae]

And of course the DoJ and White House instructed Mueller not to talk about things outside the report...then they all attacked him for refusing to answer questions outside of the report. The intent of course is to make him look like he's hiding something or disloyal somehow to discredit everything he's done. I feel like this is the kind of thing that always happens in government but it's reached new heights of absurdity in the last decade.

If he had been more savvy, the response could be "I've been instructed to not answer such questions"

 

[EgonSpengler]

I'm not sure who's speaking right now, and I'm not sure I heard him right, but I think he just asked a question about the statute of limitations on obstruction of justice being 5 years, meaning that if Trump were re-elected to a 2nd term, he would be in office until after the period had expired. He then asked if the statute, therefore, places the President above the law, and Mueller refused to offer an opinion on that.

 

[rah]

I would have refused to offer an opinion on that also in his position.

 

[Berzerker]

Mueller just agreed with Pompeo that Wikileaks is a hostile intelligence service - 'absolutely and they're under indictment'. Wikileaks does the job our media is supposed to be doing.

Somebody pointed out the Russians collect dirt on both parties and their candidates but Mueller didn't investigate the Russian effort to feed us misinformation thru the Clinton campaign.

Nunes is trying to establish that Clinton's friend Glenn Simpson met more times than Trump's people with the female Russian lawyer who went to the Trump Tower meeting. The implication being the Clinton campaign found out Wikileaks was about to expose their emails showing they rigged the election with Bernie so they fabricated a Russian conspiracy with Trump and set up the Trump Tower meeting.

Trump's people show up thereby falling into the trap and find out its a waste of time and leave. Its kinda like what happened to Gary Hart, the Republicans tricked him into boarding a boat (Monkey Business) and disappearing for a day with a woman and when they returned the media was waiting.

The point was that these crucial pieces should have been investigated by the team, and weren't. They are part of the episodes he describes in the report. We already know the facts even before the report was released, and thus the report is strictly inferior to common knowledge, but his investigation's one-sided nature, its omissions and lack of thoroughness, is giving him cover.

Apparently the IG and some guy from Connecticut appointed by Barr are investigating the investigators, that limits what Mueller can say about Steele and how his dossier triggered a fisa warrant. On the other hand, Mueller should be answering questions about that subject because it goes to the obstruction charge. The obstruction of justice =/ the obstruction of injustice. If the President has reason to believe his own DoJ is out to get him - and Trump had every reason to believe that - then he has moral authority to make sure its a fair process and getting rid of people who appear compromised can be justified.

 

[Lexicus]

I find it interesting that we've hardly heard anything about Mueller in weeks (months? hard to tell).

Barr already captured the narrative on this one with his little press conference months ago, so I doubt anything Mueller says to Congress is going to change any minds.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I missed about half of this morning's testimony and I was pleasantly surprised that the Republican members weren't screaming at Mueller the way they did during the Kavanaugh hearings though I may have missed it.

They probably didn't think they could afford that in this case since it's less farcical and more threatening to them directly.

From what little I heard Mueller mostly just deferred to his document, which is reasonable...but then why have this session at all? Did I miss something significant beyond that?

 

[EgonSpengler]

I doubt anything Mueller says to Congress is going to change any minds.

I agree. I think it's possible Trump could face charges after he leaves office, but I don't think he'll be impeached, so it'll be up to the voters in 2020. And I guess it's possible that our intelligence agencies could do something to prevent more meddling by the Russians (or anyone else). I don't expect Congress to do anything definitive, and I don't think anything from this hearing today is going to sway very many people, one way or the other.

 

[Lexicus]

It bodes ill. If Trump believes holding onto office is the only way he can avoid prosecution I think it makes him likelier to cheat...and the Republicans will follow him into the abyss.

 

[EgonSpengler]

It bodes ill. If Trump believes holding onto office is the only way he can avoid prosecution I think it makes him likelier to cheat...and the Republicans will follow him into the abyss.

A friend of mine thinks Trump will contrive to start a war in order to "unite the country" about a year from now.


Mueller is talking about "our need for a strong counter-intelligence entity." I think he's referring to the likelihood of Russian meddling in the 2020 election.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Did I miss something significant beyond that?

I believe it was mostly an effort by the Democrats to get Mueller on TV saying bad things about Trump. I think early on they thought they could get him on the record saying things beyond his report but that was squashed through legal wrangling, brinkmanship from the GOP and Mueller's own willingness to do that months ago.

 

[Lexicus]

I believe it was mostly an effort by the Democrats to get Mueller on TV saying bad things about Trump.

Didn't Ro Khanna basically explicitly say so? "The more Americans watch the more successful it will be" or some such

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yes they have said as much during interviews

 

[Berzerker]

They're not gonna prosecute Trump for obstruction when he leaves office, they let Presidents walk away from war crimes. How do you prove intent when the investigation he supposedly obstructed was corrupted by political dirty tricks? Damn right I wanted to fire these people, they let my opponents oppo research become a fisa warrant to spy on innocent people. They should be on trial.

 

[El_Machinae]

A friend of mine thinks Trump will contrive to start a war in order to "unite the country" about a year from now.
.

My main consolation on this front is that I've seen this worry multiple times now, multiple presidents. Obviously, any specific time can be different. But we always expect this worry to happen

 

[Gori the Grey]

Today's hearing won't change anything. Vote him out. No, he won't face prosecution for obstruction if we can vote him out next November, but he will face charges for many other crimes that have come to light. He should get Cohen's sentence, minimum, for conspiring with Cohen on election fraud.