Puerto Rico- Our 51st State?

[say1988]

I support any proposal that would screw up the US flag, therefore yes.

It would cost a bunch of people a bit of money, but it isn't like it would ecessarily harm the flag. One possible design:



Not bad and looks better than many designs that were used historically.

Hell it is only a century since the star arrangement was officially standardized.

 

[warpus]

Couldn't you guys just have 50 stars on the flag and then a ... ?

 

[Takhisis]

They don't pay taxes? Why are we even holding on to them?

Right of conquest, it's called.

Because we believe in giving them the right to self determination. They pay "state" taxes, but no federal ones I believe. Honestly in theory the non-ability to participate in federal government was supposed to be a big enough penalty that people would trip over themselves to become a state, but seeing as how broken the system it getting to choose bad option A or bad option B isnt the carrot they had hoped for.

If they accepted to pay taxes in exchange for representation they'd have a lot of trouble because everyone else would disregard 'the Dagos' and never vote on anything they'd want.

I support any proposal that would screw up the US flag, therefore yes.

Just to spite you Europeans, the Yanks would get the Dakotas to reconcile.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Risking PC ire by voting 2, though what I actually mean is that PR's culture is Latin American and don't see integration working without either changing that or changing America more than is plausible. This has no bearing of course on the chances of PR becoming a state in practice.

It should only be a state if two other states are combined. 51 states would be too confusing for the majority of the American population.

They need a good tidy too. Merge Washington and Oregon, split off the eastern parts of both and attach them to Idaho. If PR doesn't become a state, then split California into two, south and north.

 

[Save_Ferris]

It would cost a bunch of people a bit of money, but it isn't like it would ecessarily harm the flag. One possible design:



Not bad and looks better than many designs that were used historically.

Hell it is only a century since the star arrangement was officially standardized.

Quick, invest in Rand McNally! After all, they were behind Sudan splitting.

 

[_random_]

There's fairly regular statehood votes. Maybe one will pass eventually. It should depend entirely on the voters' will.

I for one hope they do, just to troll the English Only set.

This seems to be as good a reason as any.

 

[Antilogic]

On my original read, I though it was the sole option of the state, but in rereading it, it looks like the state and the Federal gov't would both have to agree.

Third -- New States of convenient size not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas and having sufficient population, may, hereafter by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the Federal Constitution

This is what I was referring to above--this language wasn't included when the state was formally reconstructed, so I think it's out. Would be an interesting legal case though, I would actually like to see Texas try and find out what happens.

Having commonwealth as a portion of the official name or state Constitution is fundamentally different from having it as the organizing principle of the government. Puerto Rico is legally a part of the US, but not a state, so they had to call it something. That legal distinction has long since outlived its usefulness and should not be an option going forward.

And "commonwealth" sounds so much sexier than "unincorporated-but-organized dependent territory".

I support any proposal that would screw up the US flag, therefore yes.

I support any proposal that makes the US flag even more obnoxious than it already is (seriously, how many different geometric elements do we have going on, while many nations have a simple tricolor?), and having 51-flags in only a partially-symmetric union would do exactly that.

 

[Godwynn]

 

[bigdog5994]

lets just go ahead and get it over with

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

They need a good tidy too. Merge Washington and Oregon, split off the eastern parts of both and attach them to Idaho. If PR doesn't become a state, then split California into two, south and north.

Oh dear god no. The LAST thing I want to do is become part of state-income-tax Idaho! Instead, us Eastern Washington people will form our own state of Martha, thank you very much.

EDIT: Should probably also mention that I LIKE Washington's minimum wage, and have no will to move to a state with a lower one.

 

[say1988]

Risking PC ire by voting 2, though what I actually mean is that PR's culture is Latin American and don't see integration working without either changing that or changing America more than is plausible. This has no bearing of course on the chances of PR becoming a state in practice.

Why? They have successfully been a part of the United States for over 100 years (only a couple months less than Hawaii). They have had non-voting representation in Congress since 1901. I don't see how that has stopped anything from working out or forced either the US or Puerto Rico to change.

Further, there are already 32 million Mexican-Americans and millions of other Hispanics that have representation.

Would giving another 3.7 million representation change anything about the overall nature of the country?

 

[Antilogic]

Why? They have successfully been a part of the United States for over 100 years (only a couple months less than Hawaii). They have had non-voting representation in Congress since 1901. I don't see how that has stopped anything from working out or forced either the US or Puerto Rico to change.

Further, there are already 32 million Mexican-Americans and millions of other Hispanics that have representation.

Would giving another 3.7 million representation change anything about the overall nature of the country?

Not only that, but they have had full US citizenship, with all the rights thereof, since 1913 or some other long-ago date.

Puerto Rico would immediately jump in as the 29th most populous state, and would receive something like 5 House of Reps members. Their political parties would probably align more with the Democratic Party than the Republicans, so I'd expect the state to be a lean-blue in presidential elections, etc. Overall, this would change the electoral college very little, far less than someone like me would like to see. But it's a start.

 

[BvBPL]

This is what I was referring to above--this language wasn't included when the state was formally reconstructed, so I think it's out. Would be an interesting legal case though, I would actually like to see Texas try and find out what happens.

I have my doubts about that. During Texas's readmission they had to draft a new state constitution, so the old constitution is void, but what gives Texas the power to split up isn't in their constitution, it's from the Ordinance of Annexation. Unlike the state's old constitution, I'm not sure if the Ordinance was ever voided. Furthermore, I don't see how the obligation of the USA's Federal gov't is discharged by the events of Reconstruction.

 

[emzie]

I support PR as a state just to see what would happen when their Congressmen came to Washington and started speaking Spanish in session.

 

[BvBPL]

Risking PC ire by voting 2, though what I actually mean is that PR's culture is Latin American and don't see integration working without either changing that or changing America more than is plausible. This has no bearing of course on the chances of PR becoming a state in practice.

Latin American culture is alive and well in the US. Just look at baseball or the Nuyorican cafe. Those seem to be existing just fine opposite hockey and Saint Patrick's Day.

 

[Pangur Bán]

@say1988 and BvBPL, you are making the error of equating the presence of a dislocated culture in your country (in the process of being Americanized) with attaching a large linguistically distinct territorial unit. There are lots of Russians in the USA too, but doesn't mean adding a whole Russian oblast will be insignificant.

 

[say1988]

How would it be significant?

At the very most, all legislation and other communication iwll need to be translated into Spanish.

 

[Takhisis]

That sounds like a good job offer.

But, seirously, the U.S. is homogeneous in having English as the language of government. How much would it change if it had a Spanish-speaking state being part of the Union?

P.S. How would it affect international relations?

 

[Antilogic]

I have my doubts about that. During Texas's readmission they had to draft a new state constitution, so the old constitution is void, but what gives Texas the power to split up isn't in their constitution, it's from the Ordinance of Annexation. Unlike the state's old constitution, I'm not sure if the Ordinance was ever voided. Furthermore, I don't see how the obligation of the USA's Federal gov't is discharged by the events of Reconstruction.

Good points, and I would have to investigate further to post much more. I'm not clear on what you think the obligation of the federal government is in this case, since we do not differ on the point that the state legislature and federal government would have to approve the creation of any new states; if Texas cannot originate a bill to separate itself, then what is the federal government's obligation?

That sounds like a good job offer.

But, seirously, the U.S. is homogeneous in having English as the language of government. How much would it change if it had a Spanish-speaking state being part of the Union?

P.S. How would it affect international relations?

Not much, since international diplomacy would still be conducted by the same state department, and most federal government documents get translated anyway, at least the functional parts. Besides, most Puerto Ricans understand English, even if they don't speak it fluently.

Other countries might view us differently if we gave all of our citizens the right to vote for Senators, Representatives, and the Presidency.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Having a backward territorial unit dominated by the language of a country's neighbours to the exclusion of its own language ... sounds fine in theory, but doesn't have a great history of working out very well. English is more than just the official language of the US (I'm aware btw the constitution doesn't state this explicitly), it's also the language of the American people and their culture which like it or not does exist; the US has always been a nation of immigration it is true, but also one of assimilation at the expense of ethno-linguistic regionalism.