Puerto Rico- Our 51st State?

[Takhisis]

Having a backward territorial unit dominated by the language of a country's neighbours to the exclusion of its own language ... sounds fine in theory, but doesn't have a great history of working out very well.

See Bretagne, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Man, Russification across the Russian Empire/Soviet Union, Spanishisation in the Spanish Empire as well as the iberian peninsula, etc. etc. I agree.

 

[say1988]

Having a backward territorial unit dominated by the language of a country's neighbours to the exclusion of its own language ... sounds fine in theory, but doesn't have a great history of working out very well. English is more than just the official language of the US (I'm aware btw the constitution doesn't state this explicitly), it's also the language of the American people and their culture which like it or not does exist; the US has always been a nation of immigration it is true, but also one of assimilation at the expense of ethno-linguistic regionalism.

The US already has "a backward territorial unit dominated by the language of a country's neighbours to the exclusion of its own language."
The only change would be representation in Congress with 2 Senators and 4 or 5 voting Representatives and gaining 6 or 7 electoral votes.

 

[Winner]

It would cost a bunch of people a bit of money, but it isn't like it would ecessarily harm the flag. One possible design:



Not bad and looks better than many designs that were used historically.

Hell it is only a century since the star arrangement was officially standardized.

Bleh, that's even uglier than the present-day version

I am so glad our flag doesn't change with new states being admitted.

Spoiler :

See Bretagne, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Man, Russification across the Russian Empire/Soviet Union, Spanishisation in the Spanish Empire as well as the iberian peninsula, etc. etc. I agree.

I think the US is on the best way to have parts of its territory de-Anglicized.

 

[Pangur Bán]

The US already has "a backward territorial unit dominated by the language of a country's neighbours to the exclusion of its own language."
The only change would be representation in Congress with 2 Senators and 4 or 5 voting Representatives and gaining 6 or 7 electoral votes.

You are portraying it as a small change when everyone here knows it wouldn't be. Obviously that's not the only practical change. PR is currently a colonial dependency, and that's different entirely from being an integral part of a nation. If you think not, time will show you what the difference means.

 

[wilycoyote]

Bleh, that's even uglier than the present-day version

I am so glad our flag doesn't change with new states being admitted.

Spoiler :

I for one support a complete redesign of the US flag. Truly disgusting. We could go with the same theme, but in a much simpler and attractive manner by adopting either the flag of Puerto Rico or Texas.

 

[Pangur Bán]

I think the US is on the best way to have parts of its territory de-Anglicized.

That's a bold prediction, can you explain?

 

[Winner]

That's a bold prediction, can you explain?

South-West US. There are countries with Latino majorities already. Give it time.

 

[say1988]

You are portraying it as a small change when everyone here knows it wouldn't be. Obviously that's not the only practical change. PR is currently a colonial dependency, and that's different entirely from being an integral part of a nation. If you think not, time will show you what the difference means.

You have yet to give any significant difference.

And I do like how your position is "everyone" when nobody has supported you and several people have argued contrary to you.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Spanish is on it's way to becoming a majority language in few states. Though that doesn't mean English speakers will be a minority. It's not really a case of "de-Anglicization."

 

[ZeletDude]

Oh dear god no. The LAST thing I want to do is become part of state-income-tax Idaho! Instead, us Eastern Washington people will form our own state of Martha, thank you very much.

EDIT: Should probably also mention that I LIKE Washington's minimum wage, and have no will to move to a state with a lower one.

We don't want you either

 

[Dachs]

South-West US. There are countries with Latino majorities already. Give it time.

Counties, surely.

And yeah, there are. Some of them have been there, with a few interruptions, since the mid-nineteenth century, when the American Southwest was decidedly less English-speaking than it is now. And almost all of them eventually end up learning to speak English, at least functionally.

 

[wilycoyote]

South-West US. There are countries with Latino majorities already. Give it time.

As someone that has lived in the Southwest USA my entire life, this is a worse prediction than the imminence of Chinese dominance.

Without illegal immigration, there would be no argument for your position.

For illegal immigrants, these populations are marginalized and have no power. And states, like my home state of Arizona, take it too far, further marginalizing these people. So, unless all of Mexico, Central and South America invade the Southwest, this won't happen.

 

[Cutlass]

Couldn't you guys just have 50 stars on the flag and then a ... ?

1 state 1 star. Been that way for 230 odd years and it would be unfair to change it now.

 

[Pangur Bán]

South-West US. There are countries with Latino majorities already. Give it time.

This is due to recent immigration trends. Anglo-American culture has seen off much more substantial threats in the past. The people coming have even less economic or social power than, say, the Germans of the 19th century.

Realistically, if Spanish becomes the working class language of these regions it may come to dominate if the disappearance of the anglo middle class continues, but this is only in peripheral regions. The heart of US economic power is in places like New York, Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, which are not under any kind of linguistic pressure.

 

[wilycoyote]

This is due to recent immigration trends. Anglo-American culture has seen off much more substantial threats in the past. The people coming have even less economic or social power than, say, the Germans of the 19th century.

Realistically, if Spanish becomes the working class language of these regions it may come to dominate if the disappearance of the anglo middle class continues, but this is only in peripheral regions. The heart of US economic power is in places like New York, Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, which are not under any kind of linguistic pressure.

How much power does a man, working in fields for minimum wage, who is scared to speak up for fear of deportation represent a threat to the American culture of the past? And even if it did, this country has absorbed many, many cultures, without the core American culture being destroyed.

 

[BvBPL]

Good points, and I would have to investigate further to post much more. I'm not clear on what you think the obligation of the federal government is in this case, since we do not differ on the point that the state legislature and federal government would have to approve the creation of any new states; if Texas cannot originate a bill to separate itself, then what is the federal government's obligation?

Well, the gov't is obliged to abide by any treaties with foreign gov'ts that any former gov'ts signed, which I think would encompass the item in question. That said, I don't think there's any real onus for the Federal gov't to act on this, even if the Texan gov't does. I'm not suggesting that any action needs to be taken in this case, just that I think the possibility of acting on this item might still exist.

 

[Winner]

This is due to recent immigration trends. Anglo-American culture has seen off much more substantial threats in the past. The people coming have even less economic or social power than, say, the Germans of the 19th century.

Doesn't matter. They're geographically concentrated and literally at the border with a major Spanish-speaking country, often with very substantial (family) ties to the "mother" country. These areas will at the very least be very bilingual. I foresee a bottom-up pressure to elevate Spanish to the status of an (unofficial) official language, which will be followed by an outflow of monolingual English speakers.

Realistically, if Spanish becomes the working class language of these regions it may come to dominate if the disappearance of the anglo middle class continues, but this is only in peripheral regions. The heart of US economic power is in places like New York, Boston, Seattle, San Francisco, which are not under any kind of linguistic pressure.

I didn't say the core Anglo-American territories will be affected. This will most likely occur in the southern border states, and possibly Florida as well.

Adding Puerto Rico would actually speed up the process I think, so that's another reason for me to like the idea.

 

[SG-17]

Risking PC ire by voting 2, though what I actually mean is that PR's culture is Latin American and don't see integration working without either changing that or changing America more than is plausible. This has no bearing of course on the chances of PR becoming a state in practice.

Their culture is no more Latin than Southern California. They've been Americans for over 100 years their culture is an American culture. They are Americans through and through.

I hate the circle design. It looks so out of place compared to the rectangular shapes of the rest of the flag. Also why I dislike the Betsy Ross flag.

That sounds like a good job offer.

But, seirously, the U.S. is homogeneous in having English as the language of government. How much would it change if it had a Spanish-speaking state being part of the Union?

P.S. How would it affect international relations?

It wouldn't because the official languages of Puerto Rico are English and Spanish. English is taught in schools and while 90% of the population doesn't speak it fluently, it is a language of their government.

Having a backward territorial unit dominated by the language of a country's neighbours to the exclusion of its own language ... sounds fine in theory, but doesn't have a great history of working out very well. English is more than just the official language of the US (I'm aware btw the constitution doesn't state this explicitly), it's also the language of the American people and their culture which like it or not does exist; the US has always been a nation of immigration it is true, but also one of assimilation at the expense of ethno-linguistic regionalism.

You don't seem to understand. There is no assimilation be had here. Puerto Ricans are already Americans. It is no different from the transition of any foreign acquired territory to a state in our past. Alaska, Hawaii, Arizona, New Mexico, Southern California, Texas, Louisiana, etc.

 

[Cutlass]

Hell, Puerto Ricans have been going back and forth from the Island for a century now. They're everywhere in the Northeast.

 

[Pangur Bán]

You don't seem to understand. There is no assimilation be had here. Puerto Ricans are already Americans. It is no different from the transition of any foreign acquired territory to a state in our past. Alaska, Hawaii, Arizona, New Mexico, Southern California, Texas, Louisiana, etc.

Yeah, I understand that's a common ideological position, but it is total fantasy. Texas was anglo before it was annexed, and the reason adjacent Mexican-dominated areas weren't annexed was because Congress didn't believe it could assimilate the locals in any good time.

Doesn't matter. They're geographically concentrated and literally at the border with a major Spanish-speaking country, often with very substantial ties with the "mother" country. These areas will at the very least be very bilingual. I foresee a bottom-up pressure to elevate Spanish to the status of an (unofficial) official language, which will be followed by an outflow of monolingual English speakers.

I think the fifth columnist thing may be something against them rather than for them, in the same way your own Germans became doomed because of a similar position for them. It's not like the Anglos of the rest of the country are just gonna sit around watch that happen. They will vote for guys who will do stuff against it. It will simply lead to ethnic discrimination and assimilation policies becoming more explicit. I suspect ...

Adding Puerto Rico would actually speed up the process I think, so that's another reason for me to like the idea.

Perhaps.