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[ainwood]

This forum is for mature, civil discussions. It is for people who are genuinely interested in free exchange of ideas, with an open mind. It is not for people who want to troll, make oh-so-witty one-liners or to derail decent discussion. It is not for chatting about the weather or the random-rants type threads.

It will be moderated quite tightly. No trolling. No name-calling. No insults. No ad-hominem attacks. Debate in a mature manner.

 

[classical_hero]

What exactly is name calling? So would calling someone a Nazi be classified as name calling even if you link their views to the views of the Nazi Party?

 

[Hygro]

lame, I didn't see there was a split. Now I'm glad it's not for real. I liked the idea that all of OT was going to be regulated as the taberna was.

 

[GamezRule]

What exactly is name calling? So would calling someone a Nazi be classified as name calling even if you link their views to the views of the Nazi Party?

I agree with the previous speaker. I feel that this is something which should be cleared up.

 

[Atticus]

If someone deserves the name, calling him nazi wouldn't be of any use: the things he had written would speak for themselves.

On the other hand, if someone hasn't deserved that label, then it falls in the same category that calling for example anti- or pro-abortion people nazis.

Ainwood: Is this thread meant to be open and for people to comment, or is it just a noticeboard?

 

[Takhisis]

Erm, why is calling a racist person a racist infracted as trolling?

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: Spam posts deleted. This is not a chat room.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Post that in the FT if you must, it does not belong here.

 

[Takhisis]

My question above still stands and I'd like an answer.

 

[Camikaze]

Same reason it always has been. The standards of this subforum follow the standards of the forum rules. If you wish to discuss why the forum rules are as they are, it would be best to open a thread in Site Feedback about it.

 

[mayor]

Erm, why is calling a racist person a racist infracted as trolling?

Same reason it always has been. The standards of this subforum follow the standards of the forum rules. If you wish to discuss why the forum rules are as they are, it would be best to open a thread in Site Feedback about it.

Would this also include asking someone if he is racist based upon his posts?

example: Do you concider yourself racist and if not how do you call yourself/ justify your posts?

If someone say yes, case closed, you might not like that the person is a racist but you have to deal with it.
However if the persons says no + explination that would open a whole new level to the discussion and an insight into human pshyche.

By allowing such questions the forum can reach discussions with even more depth.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I agree. We should be able to be critical without flaming. Saying that someone's beliefs or position(s) might be offensive to them, but it's not flaming unless you say someone is a racist simply for the sake of it. Such inquiry is often necessary for further understanding, and such observations (that policy is very racist, your position is a racist one) while not a very nice thing to hear about your positions, is not the labeling of a person but of a position, and that labeling may be a necessary step in the "convincing the other person to abandon their position" aspect of a debate. Being able to call a spade a spade in a way constructive to discussion is an indispensable part of debate.

 

[ainwood]

What exactly is name calling? So would calling someone a Nazi be classified as name calling even if you link their views to the views of the Nazi Party?

It is not exactly conducive to civil debate, is it? So in this forum, yes.

Being able to call a spade a spade in a way constructive to discussion is an indispensable part of debate.

Not when its actually a spoon, and its only one side's biased opinion that it is a spade.

You can call a 'spade a spade' in this forum provide you keep it civil, and don't set out to deliberately provoke or upset someone. If you want a different style of debate, where people have more leniency to call others out on their positions and in a more confrontational manner, do it in Forum Taberna. That way, the target of your debate can decide to participate in that style of debate, tit-for-tat. Or not.

 

[Flying Pig]

As I see it, saying 'that statement is racist' is fine, provided that you genuinely think it is, but calling somebody a racist isn't - if only because you can argue civilly over whether a particular statement actually is racist, but any argument over whether a poster is racist becomes nasty very quickly. That aside, giving anybody a label that they don't like automatically makes the conversation more hostile. You wouldn't shout 'Nazi!' at somebody in 'the real world', after all.

 

[Hygro]

Flying Pig, you'll like this


Link to video.

 

[Flying Pig]

Flying Pig, you'll like this


Link to video.

Probably ought to be required viewing for all internet discussions. Also (almost) raises the very valid point that 'I didn't mean it to be offensive' != 'it wasn't offensive' and the converse: another one that we sometimes forget.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

It is not exactly conducive to civil debate, is it? So in this forum, yes.

It's very constructive, because it puts a label to something that is being disguised as something else.

Not when its actually a spoon, and its only one side's biased opinion that it is a spade.

Duh, that's why it's a debate. If you expect to dance around the word while trying to demonstrate it, then it's never going to be productive at all. But, once again, you guys don't understand that the rules you've made up to try and crack down on trolling are only going to enable the real trolls to spread their nonsense while the people who would call them out on it suffer the most. What you don't seem to understand is: we don't care about a racist being infracted for saying racist things or having racist positions, we care about making the point in the debate that this person or their positions are such, as part of the debate. So the answer isn't punishment like this.

You can call a 'spade a spade' in this forum provide you keep it civil, and don't set out to deliberately provoke or upset someone. If you want a different style of debate, where people have more leniency to call others out on their positions and in a more confrontational manner, do it in Forum Taberna. That way, the target of your debate can decide to participate in that style of debate, tit-for-tat. Or not.

So saying someone is a racist or that their ideas are racist is provoking and trollsome, but espousing racist ideas, whether obviously so or not (not all racism is people saying, for example, that "Black people are lazy" in such clear language) isn't provoking and trollsome?

This is all the more worrisome because it leaves it up to you moderators to decide when something is correctly or incorrectly being labeled as racist, or Nazi, or fascist, or whatever the label may be. Your opinion on the matter is no more authoritative than ours.

 

[Turner]

There has always been a standard of debating the point and not the poster here. Calling someone racist is discussing the poster, not the point.

If you can't debate someone without attacking them as a person....

 

[LucyDuke]

Calling a post rasist is discussing the point. "What you said was rasist" is not attacking a person.

 

[Turner]

Yes, usually. In a perfect world that would be the way it works. But part of trolling is getting the rise out of the person, and while the statement itself shouldn't be trolling it can be trolling dependent on the reaction of the other poster.

I would love nothing more that to allow "That's a racist statement" in the forums....

 

[Takhisis]

Why are we not allowed to use the word 'racist'?