Realpolitik CIV - An Interactive AAR

[Whosit]

Get Taj! Get Taj!

We don't need that many cats considering we are not dowing them but waiting for them to dow us. Also a golden age will really help us modernize the economy. The wonder is worth it.

Actually, this is not entirely true. At least, not from my perspective. It would be a very bad idea to declare war now, but it would be a much better idea to build up our strength and declare war on them soon. With that in mind, five or six Catapults could make a great deal of difference.

Then again, even if we were just waiting for them to declare war on us, that could come at any time. Again, half a dozen Catapults could very well mean the difference between defeat and victory for us. Because of the simple fact that we do not have military dominance, choosing to chase a wonder by shutting down one of our few military production sites is not as clear-cut a decision as you might think.

That said, the cost could be worth it. Especially if Ragnar made a demand of us that we could reasonably agree to, that assures us 10 turns of peace. But we can't rely on that. And we certainly can't "beg" small change off of him, since he hates us so much.

 

[ilduce349]

We can get the production back by +1 gold, +1 production per TILE for 9 turns that the Taj gives us

 

[Whosit]

We can get the production back by +1 gold, +1 production per TILE for 9 turns that the Taj gives us

8 turns. And even with the extra production, we'll still be building 2-turn Catapults, so we won't really make up the time. Of course, the Golden Age will affect all of our cities. I'm not saying that the Taj is not worth it; I'm just saying that we should consider a cost-benefit analysis. As far as I am concerned, Wonders are always helpful, but never necessary.

 

[arya126]

I say we use Antium for the taj, AK for the collosus, and eventually build the university of sankore in london. Then maybe the globe theater in RY if we want to use that to draft. Personally I love the globe theater in my biggest commerce city. Remind me, is it a national or world wonder?

Also, i mean to build the wonders i listed one after the other, not at the same time. That would be idiotic. But an influx of wonders, or even one or two, would be very beneficial at this point.

I could nitpick at the plan that was sent, but there is no point now. So i will just leave it be.

Nice book Ravus. Another good read. Reminded me of several things.

Now on the situation: What is the result of the copperheads actions? I would just like to point out that the 'opposition actions' were done by me (unless someone else did others) and they involved the copperheads. By harming england, i guess that would depend on your definition, but i dont think most of you will have a problem with it. Only some people will cry out against it as 'me defying the governments choices'. Just wait until its posted, dont start yelling at me yet. I bet most of you wont anyway.

Ireland: I have an idea here. But first off, i would like to say that i aprove of CF's iniative. We should welcome the khan, and any refugees that make it to our shores. We should not however make any effort to extract anyone from the island and risk war with the nordic bloc. Anyone that makes it to britain will be safe, but we SHOULD NOT assist anyone besides the khan himself in making it to britain. Do we want another baltic crisis?

MY SOLUTION: Covertly supply the KRF (or whatever it is). I will volunteer a detatchment of the HDO to head over to 'train' any volunteers and set up a secret HQ deep in the wilderness. I think we should also ask Ravus for some MiBs to try and sneak into the former irish capital so they can assist with their stealth. They can gain intel, keep communications open, and basicly do anything. THEN we start to ship weapons over, but this next part is VERY important: No english or german or Roman weapons are shipped over. Those would incriminate us if they were captured after a failed battle or similar event. Either we create a whole new CHEAP weapon design to be sent, we import weapons from someone like carthage or egypt, OR we can ship VIKING weapons over there. They assaulted Cumae before us right? Then they retreated. So they must have left weapons behind. This way they might believe that the irish are using wepaons they have captured since the begining of the invasion.

I do not support free religion! We have a religion for a reason! The only reason it has not been spread is the war. Now that we are at peace, have 3 cities building missionaries off and on, ship them to egypt and india, and maybe carthage/new world. One of the main accomplishments of my term was to found a religion. We had to go back and research many techs, when we could have instead have gotten more useful ones to us at the time! Now you want to throw that away???

I support taking ireland back, but i wish to remind mech that this is not british territory. Its irish. We may be cousin countries, descended from the same people, but we are different peoples now. They have red hair, we dont. We have no justified cause to go to war at this time. But i do plan on taking it back within the next 120 turns, hopefully within the next 90. 60 if the rebuilding happens fast.

Do we have engineering?

If by statehood, you mean germany wants to be annexed, then yes. If you mean vassals in germany and antium, hell no. If you mean in Roleplay, where in game we are still one empire, but IC they are 'states' like gaul/british isles/Iberia/etc., then yes.



---------------------Everyone check out the Tags list at the bottom of the pages in this thread! A tag for RP is now 'way past cool'!------------------------------------------------------

 

[Lighthearter]

Sorry I haven't been on, but not actually that sorry, even though that sounds wrong. I got Civ5 on Thursday, and as usual my mom held it back until Friday so I could get through my week's schoolwork without being unduly distracted, I gave y'all the update -

And my dad sliced his thumb to the bone yesterday evening while working on his car's engine fan. He has 2 internal stitches, 12 external ones, his thumb is broken, and there's a big risk of infection.

I've been a little preoccupied. I'll get to the HDO's daring antics eventually - but at least Civ5 is utterly awesome. I am definitely scheduling a Realpolitik on it if I can figure out how to work things like Social Policies. That doesn't necessarily mean I'm not RPing on Civ4 again, just that I want to go on 5.

But yeah - I'm busy for now.

Statehood is a roleplaying thing.

- Lighthearter

 

[Cull]

Civ 5 is not awesome. It has its merits, but its a bit of a step backwards, and, fundamentally, the fanboys got their hands on the game. MP is just ga.

 

[arya126]

Opinions on CIV 5 have no place here. The GM was just stating aan opinion/fact. Lets not spam it up again ok?

Hope your dad is all right LH. I would tell you to tell him to get well soon, but that would be quite wierd, especially as i dont know him...

I THINK i support statehood then, as long as we still retain direct control over it in all senses of the word. If they set up a 'state' givernment, then it must not interfere with ours.

 

[Captain Fargle]

Sorry to hear about your Dad's injury LH.

btw, If you want to spend a lot of time playing Civ 5 I wholeheartedly endorse this. It would mean less happening in this thread to distract me from Pokemon White.

 

[W|M]

Personally I love the globe theater in my biggest commerce city. Remind me, is it a national or world wonder?

National.

Sorry about your dad, LH. I also have more time for RTW: EB.

 

[Whosit]

I wish your father a healthy recover, LH.

So the Opposition Action's were Arya's. Well, at least they targeted the Copperheads. We will have to wait to hear exactly how that played out.

Supplying the Irish Resistance with Norse/Foreign weaponry is rather clever. When LH has the time, I will ask him about the feasibility/cost of doing so. I don't know if we'd have to pay cash, or any other kind of in-game cost for supporting the Resistance.

On Wonders: Taj Mahal would certainly be useful. The Collosus would not--we are just a few techs away from making it Obsolete (if it hasn't been built already, I am incredibly surprised). I do want to build the Globe theatre, but not in Ravus-York. Drafting out of our primary commerce city is not a good idea. The idea behind a drafting city is to draft it every turn, and essentially keeping it at it's minimum size (size six), taking advantage of the no-unhappiness. Doing this to our main commerce city will cripple our economy. It would be better to configure Amsterdam as a drafting station.

However, we would still need Drama, six theatres, and a lot of time. I think we will have to build several workshops around Amsterdam to provide the city with the hammers necessary to even construct the Globe Theatre (it is a National Wonder, by the way). With the wines and several farms, however, it will certainly have the food capacity to handle drafting.

Oh, and the University of Sankore can be useful, but I am personally opposed to pursuing it right now. It is only useful if you build every available religious building, but we have much more important things to build than Temples or Monasteries. Things like Banks and Universities. Those will provide a greater return.

Religion Issue: I'm not certain that we can reasonably divert enough production into Missionaries to make spreading Christianity to others a feasible approach in the near-term. We can always adopt Free Religion for a period of time, convert several AI, and the re-adopt Christianity. On the other hand, we still get gold in our Shrine even if we do not have Christianity as our State Religion. In any case, it's not a decision that needs to be made immediately.

War: I'll ask Lighthearter about any info we have on the size/composition of the Norse army. I forgot about it in the original Plan, but redeploying Cull to track down the main Norse stack would be a good step. If we focus on steadily strengthening our army, we can probably be ready for a fight within a couple of terms, although we will have a large front. Where we strike will most likely depend on where the main Norse army is: We will want to attack it and destroy it. That will allow us to counter-attack at the place of our choosing.

 

[Celticfury]

No english or german or Roman weapons are shipped over. Those would incriminate us if they were captured after a failed battle or similar event. Either we create a whole new CHEAP weapon design to be sent, we import weapons from someone like carthage or egypt, OR we can ship VIKING weapons over there.

Dang it, arya, you stole my idea! Oh well, at least I'm not the only one who thinks like that. Though I was thinking about shipping over Arabian weapons.

Amsterdam sounds like a good draft city. It does have a good food base.

And LH, I hope your father has a speedy and safe recovery!

 

[Lighthearter]

I forgot about it in the original Plan, but redeploying Cull to track down the main Norse stack would be a good step.

Nidaros. What did you think I was doing with him after I got a world map more accurate then any exploration we could ever do

- Lighthearter

 

[MathNerd]

Good luck with your dad, BTW. When were the acts from?

 

[Aysee]

Hope your dad gets better.

Smart move in sending over foreign weapons. Officially we should stay neutral as not to anger the RussoVikings any further

I think we should adopt FR for now, for the diplo boost and the research gain. We need to gain tech parity!

And I'll be looking forward to Civ 5 RP's LH!

 

[arya126]

The same as the buddhist conversion cheat, along with befriending the vikings then attacking them after: This free religion thing is gamey. Stop thinking about it in game terms and start thinking about it in roleplay terms. YES, we need to be able to do whats best for gameplay. But RP is abouting roleplaying number one, (well i guess either roleplay or gameplay can be number one depending on who you are, but this is how i look at it) and then doing the gameplay.

I know you could probably explain away free religion in roleplay, but we would still know trhe truth ourselves, even if the dumb masses didnt. It is my opinion that we have chosen to pursure christianity, and we must continue to spread it in the name of it. RAVUS SURELY YOU SUPPORT THIS AS A CURRENT GREAT PROPHET? You are the one that founded this religiion. Are you just suddenly going to give it up?! YOU ARE A MONK!

This is the one thing that i think creates the most differences bewteen us whosit. You seem to look at this game as a CIV only game, where the mechanics are law, and you disaprove of the GMs meddling and the alternate solutions such as the battle of RY. I on the other think of myself as someone who roleplays first, and embraces the alternate solutions that the game cant give us, and only use CIV to advance the roleplay and give us new issues, and basicly the game, the BASE of this thread. The roleplay is built upon it.

EDIT: The color i used doesnt count as red right?

 

[Cull]

You roleplay as well as me when I DnD.

 

[mechaerik]

Well, as an in-character communist (yet one who occasionally shows religious tendancies), it would be perfectly in-character to support free religion.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

My Commiserations to your father and well-wishing for a peaceful recovery.

So Vikingland DOES have a doom stack. It's in Nidaros! If Cull is on the same square as the stack you can see exactly what every unit is and how many. S bad news later?

On Religion
There is no point changing out of OR yet.

For a start we need to build some Christian and Buddist monastaries for when we don't have OR giving us the ability to build missionaries anywhere. Currently having the ability for any town to creat a +1 Gold man is a good thing for whenever inflation hits England.

I do agree that FR would be helpful in the longterm though.

The best time to convert would be AFTER russia has been defeated. They have two religions (Buddist and Toaist) Grabbing them and spreading all three religions through the land when we have the shrines would be worthwhile, profitable and gain good happyness.

Remember spreading a religion thats not our own gives money to the Holy Nation it sprouted from. Once The Russian threat is removed and Their two holy cities are our own we will be perfectly placed to convert.

- As an aside though its annoying that not all English cities are getting the +25% bonus because christianity hasn't been spread to all of the new cities. Also Fred has been allowed to be converted into Buddism instead of Christianity! Which is bad as he gets Engineering in 8 turns and we were setting him up to be a good tech trade buddy and this could damage things. Even if we don't convert the world just our own cities and Germany would be nice.

- Another note is that we allready have Hinduism in Italy so thats 3 religions in our borders allready (But i do want those Holy Buddist and Toaist shrines before we convert)

EDIT: As for in-game RP terms. Its the same as Rome and England during their Pax Roman and Pax Britiania era's. Christianity is OUR religion. The only others i would consider in the land is those that pay us tribute (i.e we have their holy city)

On the Taj
Could be useful even if we don't convert. If a second wonder is built straight afterwards at least it will be building faster. Plus the extra production from a golden age would speed things up elsewhere.

But if people want it built in Antium it will need Christianity first to get the +25% boost.

Versailles - the extra star
Why does Arpinum in our vassal German lands have an extra silver star... thats normally used for the forbidden palace or the Versailles... Does that mean they managed to sneak a wonder in somehow? (Or that Rome did before we annexed them)

On the Khan
Kudo's to the Captain. Although long term does this mean the Khan would ask for those cities back if/when we retook Ireland and the isles?

On the Opposition Actions
Nice work Arya. A little warning would have been nice though. I thought we were going for a one strike rule?

EDIT: @Cull i love dnd attempts at roleplay. The Game master will map out a epic quest through a dark forest surrounding a mysterious castle! The characters and plot will be epic and grand... then the characters take one look around and go "so the bad guys are in the castle and forest right? Lets burn down the forest and i know engineering enough to know that most old castles have some sort of faultline. We can destroy everything pretty quickly and be done with this thing...."

 

[arya126]

Sorry on the no warning. I sort of winged it, as ive had maybe 15 minutes every morning to get things done, so i basicly just hoped you guys wouldnt be too mad. Again, i was prioritizing getting them done and keeping up on the thread.

Thanks everyone for not spamming too much in the past week. I really apreciate it.

I suppose we could always (this following senatnce was made while the recorders in parliament were out of the room, and there was no public admittance right now so its completely unknowable to anyone outside of us immortals) we could always arrange the khan to be captured by the nordics once the war is over, so we could keep the irish lands, and the nordics are seen as evil.

Yes we need to convert antium and germany RIGHT NOW.

 

[Gruekiller]

I don't have nearly enough grasp on the issues at hand to formulate any opinions, so I will parrot any opinions of IngSoc's illustrious leader, Aysee.