remember 9/11

[Ziggy Stardust]

Nope. We do have a monopoly on 9/11.

My first real actual date with my girlfriend was 9/11 2001. We went out to dinner last night to celebrate her putting up with me for 11 years.

I'm sorry for my insensitivity

 

[Angst]

Sorry about that (I wasn't here last year, but I'll apologize anyways). We cool now?

Meh, I hold no grudges, it was just interesting that you were much less emotional about it this year. It's not the 10-year anniversary, but still. Each year before has been a big pot of mourning and whining.

I'm sorry to bring this back up, but I had a thought on it.

The European ultimate peace was arranged by the Americans. With boots, bullets and bombs. Even when it comes to the USSR's role in the war - we propped them up big time and ripped the Western front wide open. And the Pacific one, and the African and British fronts when you factor in the material we provided and lend/lease.

As for the coal & steel union, how could that have happened if we hadn't liberated France and forced democracy down Germany's throat, then stuck around to make sure everyone played nice? After the last war they fought, they didn't have a coal & steel union, France just took everything they could from Germany and ended up raising the probability of another war, which eventually happened.

If there's anything I know about European history, it's that you all would have never learned to play nice without serious intervention. We provided that.

We also set up and funded (and still mostly fund) the UN - a huge driving force for change on the planet.

Dude, don't get me wrong, of course American liberation and France and subjugation of nazism provided peace. My point is that that peace was in itself temporary. And although it was groundwork for the circumstances that could produce the coal & steel union, it was not instituted by Americans. It was Germans and Frenchmen that were tired of fighting with each other. So thankyou for that, then we can make perpetual peace ourselves.

With the Marshal loans, you can complain about them, but think of this:

What? I didn't complain. D:

When in history has a conquering country gone out of their way to finance the rebuilding of the countries they just conquered, provided for their security while they did so, continued to provide their security after the fact and NOT taken over the conquered countries? Especially considering that the counquered countries struck first? Seriously, who does that?
USA#1

There's a difference between formal power and real control. The Marshall plan was instigated in order to secure allies against the USSR. Conquering Germany under a democracy wouldn't have secured them as an ally. I'm not sure you understand modern politics of influence and power. (Not to be rude.)

Let's take Afghanistan. They're under Russian attack and USA recognizes this could be a problem. USA lends training and help in order to ensure that communism doesn't spread into the country. In return, they will unformally have the allegiance of the US. And if they don't behave like an ally, you invade them to have them know their place and install a freaking provincial warlord as a president elected under corruption. Iraq was also supported by the US until Hussein didn't behave. What did you do then? Invade the place, remove the guy, "install democracy". That's the modern equivalency of imperialism and I'm unhappy you don't recognize that. And much of it was in my lifetime.

And European-American trade works both ways, it's not like we set up a predatory system at all a la the Eastern Bloc. I enjoy Nestle products as much as I'm sure you like your Coke-a-Cola.

Sure! But much of the Marshall help had the extra benefit and incentive that you simply ensured that American businesses gained foothold in the European markets. It was not a humanitarian support system, it was an intricate system of giftmaking and rebuilding in order to ensure allies against the Soviets with the added benefit of helping your businesses. And note, I'm not complaining about the Marshall plan! I'm just saying it was much more a political movement than a humanitarian one. And yes, I do like Coca-Cola.

As for all of our atrocities, they deserve attention for sure. We need to be shamed over them and not forget them so that we can learn from our mistakes. But I honestly believe that on the balance, the US has been a great positive force in the world for all the reasons I just listed.

Even if that were true, village and gold. Or another metaphor would be the irrationally abusive partner in a relationship: "Why do you cry? I know I beat you up, but look at all these nice things I bought you. Cars and furniture. That will also make up for when I beat you up again. Stop complaining, you're expecting too much. There there, I see you calming down. Let me protect you. I won't beat you up again."

And then you beat her up again.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

I'm one of those who thinks that pretty much anything is fair game to be mocked, sent up and laughed at etc. But I do insist on the joke actually being funny.

 

[del62]

It's about the trollish nature of how it was brought up and the deliberately spiteful timing.

Just like to say that as a non-American I agree.

 

[NovaKart]

Reasons I consider this a troll thread -

1. The OP provided practically nothing other than a wikipedia link in both of the threads he started on this subject. No attempt at real discussion.

2. Is the coup, even in Chile, generally referred to as 9/11 without any other description?

If people want to bring up America's crimes in foreign policy in another thread they can do that. Putting it together with a 9/11 thread is like saying - you guys deserved this. Now you may think America as a nation deserved it, but to say that the victims of 9/11 and their families deserved this, unless they personally participated in a coup plot or something, is extremely offensive. Those people are not responsible for a coup in 1973. Opening a thread like this is pretty much doing that.

I've spent about half of my adult life living outside of the US so I don't need anyone to remind me about tragedies in the rest of the world. It's still offensive to make some finger-pointing commentary on US policy in reference to 9/11.

And to categorize the day as a bunch of mourning and whining, God how offensive can you be.

Better people wouldnt trod needlessly upon the emotions of those that feel this date is significant for obvious reasons.

Better people.

Something we can agree on.

I really hate that the forum's one 9/11 remembrance thread was a snarky political commentary.* I'm not exactly a gung-ho "USA #1" kind of guy, but something about that just don't sit right with me.

*I am aware of the hypocrisy, thank you.

Pretty much how I feel about it.

I'm one of those who thinks that pretty much anything is fair game to be mocked, sent up and laughed at etc. But I do insist on the joke actually being funny.

Exactly, I might have at least laughed if it was funny.

 

[Angst]

You say you feel offended? Sorry for having your shoes get dirty when you stomp on your neighbours' flowers.

I do pay respect for the sacrifices of Danish soldiers in Afghanistan, and I do feel sorry for the families that have to endure the losses of their kin and the friends that will never see the faces to begin with, but I will not support that war.

EDIT: If I had a friend die in that tower, I would not find it proper spending the holiday mourning my country. I would spend the holiday mourning my friend and the rest of my time trying to prevent that from happening to other people.

 

[NovaKart]

I don't support the war either nor do I like a lot of America's foreign policy, I don't see what that has to do with anything. When did I ever stomp on a neighbor's flowers? Unless you mean literally, which I probably have done by accident at some point.

 

[Angst]

You don't see what America's foreign policy has to do with 9/11?

 

[NovaKart]

Yes and no. They are connected but your above statement was so flippant and sarcastic that I was rather taken aback that you would say something like that. Perhaps because I live in Turkey where terrorist attacks are very common, I would never dream of speaking so casually to about it.

 

[Neomega]

the usa 9/11 changed the course of human history forever. the other 9/11 not as much.

How do you know? What if Chile ended up becoming a bastion of Democratic communism in Latin America, and an example of working communism?

Indeed, is that not the very reason Pinochet had the backing of the CIA, the whole domino theory thing?

 

[Neomega]

Exactly, I might have at least laughed if it was funny.

like... oh... I don't know as funny as "tin tin in Tehran"?



nice bloody dead dog in the streets, BTW, for one who is offended so easily.

 

[Neomega]

The European ultimate peace was arranged by the Americans. With boots, bullets and bombs. Even when it comes to the USSR's role in the war -

Oh god, not more of this steaming red white and blue puke.

AMERICA DID NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY WIN WW II.

GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!

 

[NovaKart]

like... oh... I don't know as funny as "tin tin in Tehran"?



nice bloody dead dog in the streets, BTW, for one who is offended so easily.

I'm not really offended if something is clearly a joke. I've actually thought of changing the avatar for awhile but I don't even post here that often and I couldn't find another one. I can't even tell what your avatar is.

 

[Neomega]

I'm not really offended if something is clearly a joke. I've actually thought of changing the avatar for awhile but I don't even post here that often and I couldn't find another one. I can't even tell what your avatar is.

Why did you choose it in the first place?
What is so funny about it?
And why Tehran, the current big bad boogy man of the world?

 

[NovaKart]

I was reading Tintin while studying French at the time and just saw the photo. I found it mildly amusing at best really. That and I live relatively near Iran, it's the nearest foreign country besides Armenia.

 

[Neomega]

I was reading Tintin while studying French at the time and just saw the photo. I found it mildly amusing at best really. That and I live relatively near Iran, it's the nearest foreign country besides Armenia.

So you've been to Iran, and found it fitting of your visit in a satirical way? What about the fake cover of a Tin Tin comic reminded you of your visit to Iran?

 

[NovaKart]

I haven't been to Iran, I live relatively near Iran, and I was reading Tintin comics for practicing French. Hence, the avatar.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What offends me is using 9/11 as an excuse to practice even more Islamophobia 11 years later.

TAMPA — They are a who's who in the campaign against radical Islam. The lineup includes a man who helped inspire U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann to investigate Muslims in the government and a publisher who argues that school textbooks are too sympathetic to Islam.

And speaking among them today will be Hillsborough County School Board member Stacy White.

The east Hillsborough pharmacist said he is not bothered that some view the group of speakers as extremist and intolerant or the topic as unfitting on a day when the world mourns victims of a terror attack.

The host, School Board candidate Terry Kemple, said the day is indeed appropriate.

"9/11 is a day to remember what happened, the people who were killed," he said. "And it's a reminder to be vigilant to ensure it doesn't happen again."

Kemple and White have tried for months to get the district to issue guidelines about guest speakers in classrooms, an issue that arose after Hassan Shibly of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) visited Steinbrenner High School last year.

White says the current system is too lax. Kemple objects to speakers from CAIR and other groups he says have terrorist ties.

"It is very shameful that Kemple would do a disservice to the victims of Sept. 11 by using the memory of that day to promote hatred and bigotry to advance his political ambitions," said Shibly, CAIR's Tampa executive director, adding "it is very disturbing that Stacy White would share the stage with extremists."

Shibly said he plans to mark the anniversary by helping lead an interfaith service at the University of Tampa.

Kemple has brought some of today's speakers to School Board meetings before, including Melvin Bledsoe, whose son was convicted of murdering a U.S. soldier after what was described as an indoctrination into radical Islam.

Also included are Bill Korach, author of the Report Card online magazine that examines cultural influences on schools, and Guy Rodgers, executive director of ACT! for America. ACT! on its website promises to take action "whether the specific threat is violent jihad, stealth jihad, the advance of sharia law, the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood, or the scourge of political correctness which is enabling the rise of radical Islam.

9/11 RALLY TO BAN CAIR IN CLASSROOM

Tampa Tea Party Members!

COME HEAR EXPERTS SPEAK

VIEW THE DOCUMENTARY "LOSING OUR SONS"

FULL DAY OF AGENDA ITEMS LISTED BELOW - RALLY & VIEWING BEGINS AT 6:30PM

Community Issues Council, Education Coalition, Tampa 912, Tampa Tea Party, Pinellas Patriots, & other Patriot Organizations - Hillsborough School Board vice-chair April Griffin says that it's disrespectful for us to have a Press Conference and a viewing of the documentary "Losing Our Sons" on 911.

I think the majority on the Hillsborough School Board is being disrespectful to both those who have fallen and to those who are still here. Their refusal to discuss the connection between the Council on American Islamic Relations and the people who flew the planes into the towers on 911 is an invitation for more acts of terrorism in our country!

Please follow this link 911 Remembrance to the invitation to the Statewide Rally & Press Conference at the Tampa School Board on 9/11 to demand a Policy to BAN CAIR from the Classroom!

Nationally known experts will explain the threat and introduce the documentary"Losing Our Sons".

This documentary about two fathers who lost their sons to terrorism is extremely touching as they share their pain. It's also chilling when we think that these aren't the only parents who will face this tragedy if "we the people" don't recognize the danger and take action.



Please stand with us as we press the School Board to keep organizations linked to terrorism out of our classrooms!



Together we can make a difference!



God bless you!

Terry

See Rally flyer at:

http://www.meetup.com/Tampa-Tea-Party/files/

Rally Intinerary - found at eventbrite site to register:

http://911rallytampa2bancair.eventbrite.com/

11:30 am: (Optional) attend the annual 9/11 Prayer Vigil with Jesten Peters @ Joe Chillura Park across the street from the Hillsborough County Center, 601 E. Kennedy Blvd., Tampa Florida.

1:00 pm: Meet & Assemble @ Joe Chillura Park, march (2 blocks) to the School Board for Rally & Press Conference @ Hillsborough County School Board, 901 E. Kennedy Blvd., Tampa Florida. Rally open to all who oppose CAIR in the Classroom. Respectfully request that you join us & share this information with all like minded PATRIOTS in your sphere of influence… this is a statewide request.

1:45 pm: Press Conference in front of Hillsborough County School Board. Contact Terry Kemple [masked]or Randy McDaniels[masked]if your organization would like to participate in the press conference.

3:00 pm: Comments for formal policy to ban CAIR in front of board members. In event our item is removed from the agenda, comments will be at 5:00 pm by select representatives of the Education Coalition. All others can break for dinner and travel to church at this time for briefing and screening of “Losing our Sons” @ The River Church.

5:45 pm: Doors open @ River Church for briefing Nationally Recognized Speakers listed above and others to be named later. The River Church is located at 3738 River International Drive, Tampa Florida, 33610.

6:15– 9:00 pm: 9/11 ceremony, Security Briefing and screening of “Losing our Sons”.

Link to video.

 

[civver_764]

I really hate that the forum's one 9/11 remembrance thread was a snarky political commentary.* I'm not exactly a gung-ho "USA #1" kind of guy, but something about that just don't sit right with me.

*I am aware of the hypocrisy, thank you.

Seriously? I love it. After 10 years people can finally stop talking about it. All it serves is to build up unnecessary hatred for Middle Easterners.

 

[Neomega]

What offends me is using 9/11 as an excuse to practice even more Islamophobia 11 years later.





9/11 RALLY TO BAN CAIR IN CLASSROOM

Don't forget, mosques too close to ground zero are offensive to many of the poor offended posters of this thread.