Returning Civ Leaders-Elimination Thread

[Kimiimaro]

Abraham Lincoln 18
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Charlemagne 6-3=3 - Leader? Great! But for which nation?
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 22
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 16
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12
Louis XIV 29
Mansa Musa 34+1=35 - Wasting my point to the top priority. I wonder how many points will Mansa Musa have before it will be the final fight between him, Hammurabi, Frederick the Great, Ashoka and Louis XIV.
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12
Sitting Bull 5
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 10

 

[Zaarin]

Abraham Lincoln 15 (18 - 3) -- Honestly, I'm not a fan, and I'd prefer a much earlier president like Adams, Madison, Jefferson, or Washington.
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Charlemagne 3
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 22
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 16
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12
Louis XIV 30 (29 + 1) -- When Firaxis said they were going for big personalities, I just assumed he was a given; I was flabbergasted when they announced Catherine instead. This needs to be rectified stat.
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12
Sitting Bull 5
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 10

EDITed to account for Kimiimaro's vote.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Abraham Lincoln 15
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Charlemagne 0 (3 - 3) If the Holy Roman Empire was neither Holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire, then I fear Charlemagne is neither German, nor French, nor Austrian, and so he goes ...
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 22
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 17 (16 + 1) Louis and Henry, the Dynamic Dynastic Dueling Divas
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12
Louis XIV 30
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12
Sitting Bull 5
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 10

 

[Guandao]

Abraham Lincoln 15
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 22
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 17
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12
Louis XIV 30
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12
Sitting Bull (5-3)=2 Might as well get rid of you, Sitting Bull...I'm tired of the attention the Sioux receive compared to other Amerindians. They are famous in the same way the Zulu are, for fighting English speaking peoples.
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob (10+1)=11 Despite his hilariously bad portrayal in Civ4, Zara Yaqob is still one of the better choices for an Ethiopian Emperor pre-Menelik II.

For Zaarin, you probably mentioned this before, but can you tell me why you dislike Lincoln compared to the earlier American Presidents?

 

[Manifold]

Abraham Lincoln 15
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 23 (22+1) of course no question
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 17
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12
Louis XIV 27 (30-3) too funny for a wargame
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12
Sitting Bull 2 (that is pity! this is a great and iconic guy)
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Zaarin]

@Guandao My reasons for disliking Lincoln specifically are that I prefer a more hands-off president; I think Lincoln's heavy-handed policies (in particular, suspending habaeus corpus and placing restrictions on the press*) bordered on the tyrannical, and I think his handling of the secession crisis and ensuing Civil War was clumsy and inept at best. My reason for preferring an earlier president is simply because that's the only period of American history that really interests me.

@Manifold Sitting Bull is certainly an interesting figure, but unfortunately he'd bring the Sioux with him. They are so overrepresented in the media that most non-Americans and even many Americans believe all Native Americans road horses and wore warbonnets; there's no need to keep perpetuating that stereotype when there are hundreds of other tribes to choose from.

*This might make my fondness for Adams look a little hypocritical, what with the Alien and Sedition Acts, but while I think those acts were incontrovertibly wrong, I do think he was otherwise an excellent president.

 

[Morningcalm]

Abraham Lincoln 15 + 1 = 16 (Dealt with some of the greatest crises (or arguably the greatest crisis aside from World War II) to hit the U.S. ever. Certainly not perfect, but weathered the storm each and every time using a capable cabinet and uncanny sense)
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 23
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 17 - 3 = 14 (Ruined his country financially, known for beheading his wives rather than for his Church of England. We can find better leaders like Henry V, for whom the longbowman would make great sense given his victory at Agincourt.)
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12
Louis XIV 27
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12
Sitting Bull 2
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[IgorS]

Abraham Lincoln 16
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 23
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12
Louis XIV 27 + 1 = 28 - A super-important leader, who represents the Ancient Regime best.
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12
Sitting Bull 2
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 21 - 3 = 18 - Too similar to Hojo Tokimune, would prefer a Japanese leader who is not portrayed as a samurai of sorts.
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Morgawr]

Abraham Lincoln 16
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 23
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 12+1 = 13 I miss him from Civ4, was a good religious leader. Joined this game late and don't understand why his score is so low already
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 12-3 = 8 Out of this whole list, this is the only leader I didn't remember at all and had to google to refresh my memory
Sitting Bull 2
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 18
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Zaarin]

Abraham Lincoln 16
Ashoka 33
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 25
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 24 (23 + 1) -- He or his father really are the best choices for Carthage.
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10 (13 - 3) -- We need a Komnenos. Not only would a Medieval leader make Byzantium more distinct from Rome or Greece, but the Komnenids were quite simply some of Byzantium's best rulers.
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 8
Sitting Bull 2
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 18
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Siptah]

Abraham Lincoln 16
Ashoka 30 (33-0) He has too many points, and overall I'd prefer to have more leaders from medieval and renaissance times in the game. There is already so much classical and ancient unique stuff and leaders present - why not choose Akbar?
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 26 (25+1) more culture for germany
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 24
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 8
Sitting Bull 2
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 18
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Abraham Lincoln 17 (16 + 1) Read Tried by War and Team of Rivals and then come back and argue that he was not an effective Executive in extreme times.
Ashoka 30
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 24
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 8
Sitting Bull 0 (2 - 3) IF we need a North American horse-culture, it should be the Commanches or Nez Perce, and if we must have the Lakotah, the leader should be Red Cloud the Winner.
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 18
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Kimiimaro]

Abraham Lincoln 17
Ashoka 30
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 16-3=13 - I would rather have a Medieval or Renaissance king/queen of England.
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 24+1=25 - I'm very sorry for downvoting you in past for "being general, not leader"! Today, I've read something more about Hannibal as Shophet and I found out he was one of the best leaders that Carthage ever had.
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 8
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 18
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Morningcalm]

Abraham Lincoln 17 + 1 = 18 (A fascinating leader with a clear agenda.)
Ashoka 30
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 13
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 25
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 8 - 3 = 5 (Which Mursili is this one supposed to represent? I'm all for Hittite leaders but it eludes me why they chose this specific one--though all three Musilis were dull, even the first one who sacked Babylon, and the one who has an eclipse named after him, have little story behind them from what can be gleaned on the Internet, especially when compared to other Hittite rulers, including the diplomatic Queen Puduhepa.)
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 18
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 11

 

[Guandao]

Abraham Lincoln 18
Ashoka 30
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill (13-3)=10 Not really looking forward to any WWII leaders returning. Besides, we have Curtin. He's also pretty close in time period to Victoria.
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 25
Hannibal Barca 25
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 5
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 18
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob (11+1)=12 I think he's a decent choice for a pre-Menelik II Ethiopian leader.

 

[Manifold]

Abraham Lincoln 18
Ashoka 30
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 10
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 26 (25+1) he and Shaka have the same colour
Hannibal Barca 25
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 5
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 15 (18-3) maybe not another Samurai. I do not know.
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 12

 

[IgorS]

Abraham Lincoln 18
Ashoka 30 + 1 = 31 - Haven't voted for him in a while.
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 10
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 26
Hannibal Barca 25
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 28
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 5
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 15
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 12 - 3 = 9 - For his persecution of Ethiopia's Jews.

 

[WillowBrook]

Abraham Lincoln 18
Ashoka 31
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 10
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 26
Hannibal Barca 25
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 29 (28+1) big personality
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 2 (5 -3) not a priority
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 15
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 9

 

[Zaarin]

Abraham Lincoln 15 (18 - 3) -- He and Churchill are my least favorites left on this list.
Ashoka 31
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 10
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 26
Hannibal Barca 25
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 24
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 30 (29+1) -- You don't make a game about big personalities and forget to invite the Sun King.
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 2
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 15
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 9

 

[Siptah]

Abraham Lincoln 15
Ashoka 31
Canute/Cnut the Great 22
Churchill 7 (10-3) not another WWII leader...
Frederick the Great 26
Hammurabi 26
Hannibal Barca 25
Hatshepsut 16
Henry VIII 14
Huayna Capac 22
João II 25 (24+1) imho the best choice for Portugal, which surely should and will be included at some point
Justinian I 10
Louis XIV 30
Mansa Musa 35
Mehmed II 22
Mursilis 2
Suryavarman II 21
Tokugawa Ieyasu 15
Wang Kon 11
Zara Yaqob 9