RR2- No Worker Paradise

[pnaxighn]

Hi guys

got it for the next turnset...
Builds suggested by Pnaxighn sound fine... will settle the silk city... Note there is another clam in the west of London (north of the useless barb city).

I noticed that. The land around it looks kinda crap, but if we decide to spam cities for GLH abuse, it might be a good target. Worth exploring, at the very least.

I don't get why we should close borders with Justinian though... he created Judaism and will probably soon convert us for higher diplo and happiness... i didn't notice any WHEOOH so I think it's safe (+ at noble AI's military).

I don't like to have OB with another civ unless I'm actively using it. I hadn't considered the Judaism angle though -- that's important.

We might OB with Joao as well as it fits nicely with the GLH.

Is there a trade bonus for open borders? I don't really know much about trade routes, other than that cottages and specialists seem to work better...

Tech will be Construction-> HBR...

Seems almost mandatory

Thoughts?

Cheers
Raskolnikov

Do you plan on building up a catapult army as soon as construction is in and those other builds are finished? I fear that the key decision point on our next war is as soon as that happens -- either we build cats everywhere ASAP, or we don't have a proper SoD before cats/'phants is outmoded.

Whether warring at that tech level is correct, I just have no clue. So...that's not useful

 

[pnaxighn]

Lurker Comment:


Some naughty person probably played a turnset with the SimCutie color file in use.

You can view the log on the attached one.

The thing that makes this perfect is your use of a grinch pic as your icon.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@pnaxighn: I will start cats as soon as construction is in... but probably won't do much more... OB give foreign trade routes to your empire which are more lucrative than internal ones... each are roughly equivalent to 3-4 commerce at first. Late game, they beat financial towns (you can go higher than 10 commerce / turn)... + GLH adds two trade routes per city.

@Rolo: normal speed so a 10 turns turnset (approximately)?

 

[r_rolo1]

yup, take it for 10 turn or close. If needed stop earlier or later, ofc.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

An idea to think about for the team:

It's 700 BC and already late for the GLH (this is noble but still). Starting this wonder and loosing it would be bad... we woudln't get a lot of money in return (no multipliers) and we can't chop it nor have good mines.

What about producing two settlers in London instead... It will do more good for us as we can this way whip cats from one more city...

I will play tomorrow... I am waiting comments for now

Cheers

 

[mystyfly]

First off a note about my status: My pc will most likely be ready next week. I'll be away this weekend and have finally time for something like formating (again...). I don't fancy messing around in the registry but will make the c: partition a bit bigger... Please let me play a set next week if possible.

A few comments about the game:

I see no reason for closing borders with just. Trade routes and religions are tasty.

Library in capital is great (as, I believe, discussed earlier) for the specs. I'm for getting the overflow into GLH, working on it a bit and then, again, overflowhipping the settler into the GLH to complete it (or just complete the GLH if we're afraid of losing it).

I don't see our capital pumping out units yet, it should first build a few settlers and wonders, run specs and get GPs, to get research towards lib going.


@Rolo: The 2 pics in your first spoiler look very similar to me

 

[pnaxighn]

@pnaxighn:Late game, they beat financial towns (you can go higher than 10 commerce / turn)...

That beats ONE town...towned cities typically work 10+, and I thought the limit on trade routes was lower than that.

Perhaps I should play a game where my only goal is trade-route optimization.

Hm.

 

[pnaxighn]

Library in capital is great (as, I believe, discussed earlier) for the specs.

It's also great because the palace produces a bunch of commerce -- our capital produces something like 75% of our commerce, I believe. But no one was arguing against that, that I know of. I was arguing against the library in York, which is not the capital.

I don't see our capital pumping out units yet, it should first build a few settlers and wonders, run specs and get GPs, to get research towards lib going.

Is this a luxury we have? One city making cats, then switching to 'phants when HBR is in, is going to give us a puny SoD. I know it's noble, but this makes me nervous.

 

[stuge]

Build one settler for the silk city. Or is there another worthy site that I'm not aware of? Otherwise I don't think we're in a hurry to attack Justinian. As long as he doesn't get LBs or phants, we can delay the attack and have him improve the land.

 

[Ad Hoc]

i think just the silk city for now, and let the AI improve our future empire.

we need to keep an eye on who gets the phants to the south.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi

Played ten turns to 450 BC:

T87: OB with Joao. Switch to a barrack in york. Put science to 0%.

T88: 3 pop whip the library in London with max overflow (29h + current prod per turn)...

T89: in the GLH. Put back the science slider to 100%.

T90: moving exploring warriors mostly...

T91: London is about to grow in unhappiness... We start a settler. Whip the barrack for two pop in York.

T92: Put the overflow at York in an archer (for future garrison duty).
Our exploring warrior finds a nice place to settle (on the cows, some trade routes, and can run a couple of scientists):

Spoiler :

T93: Start a lighthouse for improved whipping in York... Whip the settler for 3 pop in London. Judaism finally reachs our land, we convert to make friends (waiting to kill them) and for the happiness...

Spoiler :

T94: nothing

T95: Construction is in. We start HBR...

Spoiler :

A prophet is born in London... I looked at the thread but didn't see him mentionned so we settled him in London... We gain 4 turns in the GLH and run positve cash at 100% science!

Spoiler :

T96:...

T97: ToA bifl...Our exploring warrior finds another seafood... perhaps another future fishing village...

Spoiler :

We settle Notthingham (it starts with a WB) and I stop here.

Notes: GLH is whippable in 4 turns in London.
With this config, York can be whipped for two pop in one turn for some nice overflow in a catapult...
No AIs are in WHEOOH. Justininan is already pleased.
No Ai with alphabet yet.

General view of England:

Spoiler :

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[pnaxighn]

Nice set. With the two fishing villages on the NW peninsula, the city the barbs helpfully built, and our three, it sounds like we can have 6 cities before going to war, if so desired (and have GLH trade routes in all of them).

 

[ZPV]

Good play, RRR!

I agree that we should settle the two fishing villages, as there is almost no workable land to improve, and there is no chance the AI will settle:
a) in a reasonable amount of time, or
b) in the right places.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

That beats ONE town...towned cities typically work 10+, and I thought the limit on trade routes was lower than that.

My point was that you can have both!

 

[mystyfly]

Looking good tough I wouldn't have whipped the rax in york into the archer and the lighthouse but would've held back until we can have it into cats.

That peninsula looks good, we couldn't improve it anyway and get nearly just as good cities as in an usual game

Next techs: I'd tech to aesthetics > literature to get the GL and pop some GS.

Settling the GP is fine with me aswell. I'm confident justinian will build the temple of solomon for us

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Mystyfly: Sorry if the MM of York wasn't what was expected ... I thought that both the rax and a lighthouse could be usefull to whip future troops (York was growing to size 4 on unforested, unimproved grasslands ).

I too trust Justinian to make a shrine with his prophet from the Oracle

 

[mystyfly]

OFC the lighthouse is useful but with the fish not necessarily to regrow at a decent rate after whipping. Not a big deal tough.

BTW is justinian our primary target for the phantswar?

 

[r_rolo1]

Looks good, RRR ( and thank you for being able to play with such a short notice ).

Our war target IMHO should be Justiniam, mainly because it is closer.... but we will need some time to put up a army, so we can make some cities. A fishing village or two could fit in nicely.

BTW Ad Hoc is up.

 

[pnaxighn]

@Mystyfly: Sorry if the MM of York wasn't what was expected ... I thought that both the rax and a lighthouse could be usefull to whip future troops (York was growing to size 4 on unforested, unimproved grasslands ).

I too trust Justinian to make a shrine with his prophet from the Oracle

My recollection was that we eventually want York at size 6 or so -- with correct mm it can then be stagnant on growth while producing 10 (base) hammers, which will be our best production city for a while.

Given how long it will take to GET to population 6 with its land, we might want to hold back on the whip for a while. The alternative, of course, is to say "screw hammers!" and whip everything. I'm not a huge fan of doing this when building armies, because wars can sometimes go longer than expected, and I don't like to be in a bad position to build new troops when that happens.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

My recollection was that we eventually want York at size 6 or so -- with correct mm it can then be stagnant on growth while producing 10 (base) hammers, which will be our best production city for a while.

Given how long it will take to GET to population 6 with its land, we might want to hold back on the whip for a while. The alternative, of course, is to say "screw hammers!" and whip everything. I'm not a huge fan of doing this when building armies, because wars can sometimes go longer than expected, and I don't like to be in a bad position to build new troops when that happens.

Yep, but with no mines, whipping is far more efficient than working forests