[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: The 7th Thread Itch; scratch it here!

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There will not be another Ukraine counter-attack: a soufflé doesn't rise twice.
I believe the F16's will prove you wrong.

Also yay for @red_elk being all jolie about getting a Abrams...I already lost count on how many ruzzian T90s were done in by Javelins! Or how many ruzzian ships were promoted to submarines, or even how many ruzzian aircraft were lost due to drunk boris clouded eyesight when manning the ruzzian AA batteries...I even forget how many times smoking ivan caused an installation or premium ship burning to ashes...best or worst of all I forgot those epic times when homesick vatnik gave away position of barracks to Himars hammer of consequences!

All sad events of loss of life wasted by uncle Vladimir's dream of rebuilding USSR! But hey it's all the Ukrainians fault for defending themselves against the good cause, right?
 
Actually it's the Czech that made the shopping list

Thanks. I guess Pavel is probably the al in "Macron et al".
And speaking of Al...

EU likely to drop the plan of banning Russian aluminium imports in 13th sanctions package

According to a report this week, the European Union will most likely back off from prohibiting Russian aluminium imports in the 13th sanctions package. Despite full consent and support from local aluminium producers in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Poland, the European Union will likely refrain from taking drastic steps like banning Russian aluminium.
Many industrial nations may have opposed the EU's proposed ban, fearing a potential escalation of aluminium prices. Some industrial consumers within the European Union even called this measure a potential "economic tactical nuclear bomb."

Besides being worried about price consequences, industrial nations like Italy were apprehensive of the tight availability of aluminium, a critical component for various industries.

But it's only a few percent and everybody must make sacrifices if this war is to continue until Ukraine crushes the Russians, or capitulates, or there's a ceasefire.
 
I believe the F16's will prove you wrong.
Can't argue against that logic.
Even though it excites some Banderas, you might want to ask your buddies to choose their words a little more carefully to reduce the chances of any misunderstandings, you know, in the old sort of sense.

"To get any momentum on the ground, really in the old sort of blitzkrieg sense, you need to have that ground attack capability from the air — so air-to-surface attack capability. And the F-16 can do that as well."
 
Brilliant reminder. Thanks for getting me back on track.

When I was in Berlin 15 years ago, I saw some reminders too.
Large chunks taken out of the walls of the Pergamon Museum made by machine gun bullets. Haha. They're funny because Soviet bullets couldn't penetrate the thick stone walls.

And those Soviet tanks in the Tiergarten. OMG, they're so funny because they're old, not like Leopards.

I don't believe the rumours that there is a homing beacon inside one of the tanks that will start to beep the moment Germany attacks the USSR again. That's heaps funny because there is no USSR any more so they can't get Germany (who everybody in the EU loves to bits).
 
Brilliant reminder. Thanks for getting me back on track.

When I was in Berlin 15 years ago, I saw some reminders too.
Large chunks taken out of the walls of the Pergamon Museum made by machine gun bullets. Haha. They're funny because Soviet bullets couldn't penetrate the thick stone walls.

And those Soviet tanks in the Tiergarten. OMG, they're so funny because they're old, not like Leopards.

I don't believe the rumours that there is a homing beacon inside one of the tanks that will start to beep the moment Germany attacks the USSR again. That's heaps funny because there is no USSR any more so they can't get Germany (who everybody in the EU loves to bits).
Give me a heads up when you reach that track you were trying to get back on.
 

Meanwhile back in Russia (which is just as free as your countries guys!)

Oleg Orlov looked calm as he sat waiting for the judge to deliver the verdict.

Room 518 in the courthouse was packed with well-wishers, foreign ambassadors and journalists. The judge entered the courtroom and began reading out the verdict.
She declared the veteran human rights campaigner guilty of "repeatedly discrediting" the Russian armed forces.

Having named the crime, she announced the punishment: Oleg Orlov, co-chair of the Nobel Peace Prize-winning organisation "Memorial", was sent to prison for two and a half years.

He was handcuffed and, minutes later, led out of the courtroom by police.

This had been a re-trial.

In October 2023, the court had delivered a guilty verdict, too. But the punishment then had been considerably milder.

Oleg Orlov had received a 150,000 rouble fine (£1,290; $1,630) and walked free. Prosecutors complained that the sentence was too soft. A higher court cancelled the ruling, and a re-trial was ordered.

It was a sign that in Russia the authorities were becoming increasingly intolerant of public criticism.

In protest at being forced back to court, Oleg Orlov paid little attention to proceedings second time round. Instead, he sat in court reading a copy of The Trial, Franz Kafka's classic on the absurdity of life and injustice.

When I interviewed him last year ahead of his first trial, he insisted he had done nothing wrong.

"The article I'm being tried under is 'Public actions aimed at discrediting the use of the Russian armed forces for protecting the interests of the Russian Federation and its citizens, and preserving international peace and security'," he told me.

"First of all, the Russian Constitution guarantees freedom of speech. I wrote an article presenting my assessment of events. Prosecuting me for that violates the constitution.

"Secondly, what is happening in Ukraine - let's be clear and call it a war - it is against the interests of Russia and Russian citizens.

"As for 'preserving international peace and security', that's a joke. It reminds me of George Orwell's 'War is Peace' and 'Freedom is Slavery'. Claiming that the war in Ukraine is 'in the interests of international peace' is just nonsense," he said.

This week, in his closing statement at the re-trial, Oleg Orlov spoke of a Russia that is "sinking ever more deeply into darkness."

He gave examples: the death in prison of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, judicial reprisals against other government critics. He summed up what was happening in his country as "the suffocation of freedom."

"We know the real reason why we're being detained, tried, arrested, sentenced and killed. We are being punished for daring to criticise the authorities. In present-day Russia this is absolutely prohibited," he said.

Addressing the judge and the prosecutor, he added: "Doesn't the obvious occur to you? That sooner or later, the machine of repression may roll over those who launched it and drove it forward? That's what happened many times throughout history."

Oleg Orlov is not the first government critic in Russia to have a fine upgraded to a prison sentence. Last year prominent sociologist Boris Kagarlitsky was found guilty of "public justification of terrorism" for comments he'd made about the attack on the Crimean bridge in 2022. In this case, too, the prosecution appealed the sentence. Earlier this month a court sent Mr Kagarlitsky to prison for five years.

Since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine two years ago, the Russian authorities have put together a hefty toolbox of repressive laws which can be employed to punish critics of the government and opponents of the war in Ukraine.

As well as criminalising "discreditation" of the army, Russia's criminal code now punishes what it calls "the public dissemination of deliberately false information about the use of the Russian armed forces".

Often referred to as the "Law on Fakes", it has been used to imprison such vocal Kremlin critics as Ilya Yashin.

Last year, Kremlin critic and anti-war activist Vladimir Kara-Murza was convicted of treason and sentenced to 25 years in a prison colony.

These are dark days for the Russian opposition.

Alexei Navalny, one of the most charismatic critics of the Kremlin, is dead; other leading figures are in prison or have fled into exile.

For now, it seems that Vladimir Putin's most vocal critics and potential rivals have been removed from the political stage.
 
Meanwhile, Ukraine continue to retreat Southwest of Avdeyevka.
Severnoye town captured by Russia today, some sources report Ukraine lost Stepovoye too.
 
Can't argue against that logic.
Even though it excites some Banderas, you might want to ask your buddies to choose their words a little more carefully to reduce the chances of any misunderstandings, you know, in the old sort of sense.

"To get any momentum on the ground, really in the old sort of blitzkrieg sense, you need to have that ground attack capability from the air — so air-to-surface attack capability. And the F-16 can do that as well."
How should I feel after you suggested me being a Bandera follower?

My "buddy" is talking to much! You shouldn't disclosure war tactics on a public platform. But hey, maybe hearing Medvedev threatening the world of nuclear annihilation day in and day out is probably making me insensitive!

 
Interesting.

Also, Russian authorities unexpectedly returned body to the relatives.
 
Interesting indeed. Navalny might very well have died of natural cause.
What is also interesting is the cherry picking of facts, aka the fallacy of selective evidence, seen here.
What was Navalny accused of in the first place? Was his trial fair? Was the sentence (being imprisoned for years in a Siberian penal colony) appropriate for the crime?
What happened to him in 2020 when he suddenly fell sick? His doctors with the help of OPCW labs ruled that he was poisoned by a Novichok nerve agent, is that conclusion credible? Who is the most likely culprit for the poisoning?
Is this comparable in any way to the treatment of other people critical of the regime that were threatened and then murdered such as Anna Politkovskaya? Or to today's treatment of human right activists and anti-war protesters? Are these people treated fairly?
As always, any difficult subject or question will be completely ignored. (Or, if lucky, you might get some whataboutism.)
The only comments will be to answer softball questions with the usual platitudes or to berate adversaries when they themselves indulge in bad propaganda.
 
Ghost of Kiev draws another star :)

Edit: No OSINT confirmation, neither by Russian sources.

If they've not been pulled back from CAS the time to replace the lost AWACS, you can expect more to be shoot down, especially if the front is moving.
 

Alexei Navalny: Opposition leader's lawyer reportedly arrested in Moscow​

A lawyer for Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny, who died in prison this month, has reportedly been arrested in Moscow.

According to Russian media sources, Vasily Dubkov was detained for "violating public order".

Following Navalny's death, Mr Dubkov accompanied his mother to the Arctic prison colony where he died on 16 February.

The Russian authorities have not yet confirmed the arrest of Mr Dubkov.

In October 2023, other lawyers for Navalny - Vadim Kobzev, Igor Sergunin, and Aleksei Lipster - were arrested on charges of "extremism".

In January, Olga Mikhailova, another lawyer for the opposition leader, said she had been charged with the same crime and decided to remain in exile.

Russian authorities banned the Anti-Corruption Foundation, the organisation led by Navalny, for "extremism" in 2021.

The opposition leader's body was held by prison authorities for more than a week following his death. His mother, Lyudmila Navalnaya, travelled to the remote "Polar Wolf" jail where he died to retrieve his body, accompanied by Mr Dubkov.

The body was handed over to his mother eight days after his death. Mrs Navalnaya said she was threatened by authorities, who wanted her son to be buried in "secret".

Navalny's allies have said they are looking for a place to hold a public memorial for the former opposition leader.

However, Navalny's press secretary, Kira Yarmysh, said on Tuesday that most funeral locations they had contacted had refused to allow a ceremony on their premises.

"Some places say that the premises are occupied, some refuse when the name Navalny is mentioned. In one place we were directly told that funeral agencies were prohibited from working with us," Ms Yarmysh wrote.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68418193
 

Macron says ‘nothing ruled out,’ including using Western troops, to stop Russia winning Ukraine war​

Macron had told reporters at a news conference that while he and the other 21 European leaders present did not agree on deploying military personnel, the prospect was discussed openly.

“Nothing should be ruled out,” he said. “We will do anything we can to prevent Russia from winning this war.”
However, a raft of European officials came out Tuesday against such a plan. Among them were some of Ukraine’s more ardent supporters, including the United Kingdom, Poland, Spain and Italy, as well as officials from Hungary and Slovakia, two countries whose leaders have been criticized as pro-Russian.

“What was agreed among ourselves and with each other from the very beginning also applies to the future, namely that there will be no ground troops, no soldiers on Ukrainian soil sent there by European countries or NATO states,” said Scholz.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/27/europe/france-macron-troops-ukraine-intl/index.html
 

Macron says ‘nothing ruled out,’ including using Western troops, to stop Russia winning Ukraine war​




https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/27/europe/france-macron-troops-ukraine-intl/index.html

Nato allies reject Emmanuel Macron idea of troops to Ukraine​

Several Nato countries, including the US, Germany and the UK, have ruled out deploying ground troops to Ukraine, after French President Emmanuel Macron said "nothing should be excluded".

Mr Macron said there was "no consensus" on sending Western soldiers to Ukraine.

Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov has warned of direct conflict if Nato troops deploy there.

Russian forces have recently made gains in Ukraine and Kyiv has urgently appealed for more weapons.

Mr Macron told a news conference on Monday evening: "We should not exclude that there might be a need for security that then justifies some elements of deployment.

"But I've told you very clearly what France maintains as its position, which is a strategic ambiguity that I stand by."

The French leader was speaking in Paris, which is hosting a crisis meeting in support of Ukraine, attended by heads of European states, as well as the US and Canada.

A full-scale invasion of Ukraine launched by Russian President Vladimir Putin is now in its third year, with no signs that the biggest war in Europe since World War Two could end soon.

Mr Macron's comments prompted responses from other European and Nato member countries.

US President Joe Biden believes the "path to victory" is providing military aid "so Ukrainian troops have the weapons and ammunition they need to defend themselves", a White House statement said.

"President Biden has been clear that the US will not send troops to fight in Ukraine," it added.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said there had been no change to the agreed position that no European country or Nato member state would send troops to Ukraine.

UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's spokesman said the country had no plans for a large-scale military deployment to Ukraine, beyond the small number of personnel already training Ukrainian forces.

The office of Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni said Italy's "support does not include the presence of troops from European or Nato states on Ukrainian territory".

Mr Peskov, on behalf of the Kremlin, called Mr Macron's suggestion "a very important new element" adding it was absolutely not in the interests of Nato members.

"In that case, we would need to talk not about the probability, but about the inevitability [of direct conflict]," he said.

Earlier, Nato secretary general Jens Stoltenberg denied considering whether troops would be sent to Ukraine, although he insisted the alliance would continue to support Ukraine, which is not a Nato member.

That position has been echoed by a number of Nato member states including Spain, Poland and the Czech Republic.

Russia has an abundance of artillery and is a far bigger military force than Ukraine, whose troops are critically dependent on modern weapons being provided by Western allies, particularly the US.

But the approval of a much needed $95bn (£75bn; €69bn) US aid package - including $60bn for Ukraine - has been facing an uphill battle in the US House of Representatives.

The US is by far the largest contributor of military aid to Ukraine and had committed €42.2bn (£36bn; $45bn) as of 15 January, Kiel Institute data showed.

Germany ranks second with commitments of €17.7bn in the same time period, followed by the UK which provided €9.1bn of military aid.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, who took part in Monday's meeting in Paris by video link, said that "everything we do together to defend against Russian aggression adds real security to our nations for decades to come".
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68417223
 
Meanwhile back in Russia (which is just as free as your countries guys!)

Zelenskyy says wants Ukraine to become a ‘big Israel’​

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said he wants his country to become a “‘big Israel’ with its own face”.
Zelenskyy stressed that Ukraine would not slide into authoritarianism. “An authoritarian state would lose to Russia. People know what they are fighting for,” he said.

In comments to local media posted on the president’s official website, Zelenskyy stressed that his vision for Ukraine’s post-conflict future included having armed forces in “all institutions, supermarkets, cinemas, there will be people with weapons”.

Freedom's just another word for machine guns in Aisle 3.
 
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Zelenskyy says wants Ukraine to become a ‘big Israel’​

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said he wants his country to become a “‘big Israel’ with its own face”.
Zelenskyy stressed that Ukraine would not slide into authoritarianism. “An authoritarian state would lose to Russia. People know what they are fighting for,” he said.

In comments to local media posted on the president’s official website, Zelenskyy stressed that his vision for Ukraine’s post-conflict future included having armed forces in “all institutions, supermarkets, cinemas, there will be people with weapons”.
Whataboutism and deflection.
The only way you guys know how to answer.

Man. I'd like to engage with you. I remember in of your last posts, you "replied" to my post. I was all excited. But then you were vague and tangential as you guys always are. You linked a bunch of Wikipedia pages about "proxy" conflict (your definition being very generous) and quoted some song. Talking about the Shining Path insurgency in Peru would be cool. It's a fascinating conflict. It's also completely unrelated to this thread.

Authoritarian measures take by Ukraine, such as censorship and conscription, are bad. So is using Israel as a model. In a way it is understandable that a state whose very existence is threatened by an invasion would act like this. But it does not make it morally right.
Now what do you guys think about Russia's treatment of journalists critical of the regime? Even before the start of the war? And about its treatment of opposition figures? (and I'm not talking about the systemic opposition loyal to Putin). What about its treatment of regular people protesting against the war?

Your propaganda could be much more convincing if you at least pretended to engage in a discussion instead of constantly deflecting. But yeah, if not deflection, at most we can expect some cynical aloofness regarding moral principles or even the value of human life. Human beings are brutish and tribal. But it can be fun to at least pretend that we care about something slightly bigger than our own tribe. You should try it.
 
Whataboutism and deflection.
The only way you guys know how to answer.

What about its treatment of regular people protesting against the war?
"Hoist with his own petard" is a phrase from a speech in William Shakespeare's play Hamlet that has become proverbial. The phrase's meaning is that a bomb-maker is blown ("hoist", the past tense of "hoise") off the ground by his own bomb ("petard"), and indicates an ironic reversal or poetic justice.

Brush up your Shakespeare.
 
"Hoist with his own petard" is a phrase from a speech in William Shakespeare's play Hamlet that has become proverbial. The phrase's meaning is that a bomb-maker is blown ("hoist", the past tense of "hoise") off the ground by his own bomb ("petard"), and indicates an ironic reversal or poetic justice.

Brush up your Shakespeare.

Meh. As expected. A complete inability to answer questions.

I'll give you a recap of the conversation:
1. Ziggy shares a link about another human rights activist sentenced in Russia
2. You immediately reply, completely ignore his article (these articles will always be ignored), and try to deflect the subject to an article about Zelensky wanting Ukraine to become a big Israel
3. I reiterate the subject's of Ziggy's article and ask your opinion about its subject, which is an anti-war activist jailed in Russia
4. You accuse me of whataboutism for reiterating 1., while you once again completely ignore the subject matter

I understand my word choice might have confused you. It was poor and I apologize for it. I'm clearly not as erudite as you.
 
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