You make the mistake of bi-polar thinking.You are rightfully critical of Western propaganda, but seem to completely fall for Russian propaganda. This is the classic trap for the enlightened contrarian. You make a lot of claims that seem to have no basis in truth. I'd be curious about your evidence. But I presume like most others you will disappear when asked to articulate your arguments.
Their elections started going towards pro-Russian rather than pro-EU candidates so they responded by clamping down on anything Russian even to a degree banning the use of the language, then when the ethnically Russians started resisting the violence reached a point where the military was shelling Russian areas which caused the reactive violence from the Russians to escalate and eventually Russia was pulled into what had since at least 2014 been a civil war no one was yet paying attention to.What were the efforts to de-Russify Ukraine? How is that in any way a justification for the invasion that caused hundreds of thousands to die and millions to suffer?
I'm not aware of any violent policy from the Ukrainian government against its Russian-speaking citizens. They only fought against an armed insurgency in the Donbass propped by Russia. Any sovereign country would do that.
There were some language policies to promote Ukrainian. Is that a reason to invade?
I come from a place that promotes its own language and discriminates legally against the use of English in the public sphere. Is that also a justification for an invasion?
If you think the invasion was a reaction to "de-Russification" efforts by Ukraine, you should ask yourself who caused the killing and maiming of hundreds of thousands of Russian speakers through its invasion? Russia's actions have done much more to eliminate Russian speakers in Ukraine than Ukraine ever did in its history.
There does not have to be a public policy for anything, verbal orders are enough for something to be practical policy. The first step of ethnic cleansing if you are not prepared to do outright genocide is to eliminate the language and replace the souls of the people with a new one in your own image by forcing your language on them. There is a difference between promoting a language and attempting to eradicate another, even if they did not try to do this it was interpreted by the Russian Ukrainians as such. And I speak as someone who's great grandparents went through the same process where the then overlord attempted to replace their language in order to replace their identity.... and the current overlord is using low intensity strategies to currently do it but at least this one is more incompetent than the previous one and it too will fail.
There is a lot of he said she said here but the fact is Russia could never have gotten involved if Ukraine did not overstep and target civilians in some way. The invasion was merely the tail end of a decade long process. Yes you can make the argument that more Russians have died because of the war but you come up against arguments that they either merely sped up the process and that the Ukrainians are to blame in some way or another.... IMO though the Russians are simply guilty of stubborn incompetence here where they intended for a police action which spiraled into a war because of Western interference and they are simply too caught in the grip of history to admit they are not in full control. They don't in their minds have any way out other than through.... and they will blame Ukraine (with a degree of truth) for the excess deaths. I might be in ignorance about something but it stuns me that they did not do mass evacuations of the disputed areas unless they want to use them as human shields or something. It just seems blatantly stupid to still do it this way.
You make the mistake of thinking this is perceived as a war on Ukraine when it's a defensive war against the Western powers which seek to make Russia a client state. This is true both on the ground and in leadership... they don't even see Ukraine as the real enemy they are fighting it's just a puppet in the second phase of the cold war or cold war 2.0... and this is quite obviously true. This is not about a mere 10 years of humiliation for the Russians but about a century of humiliation the same way as it is for China only there it's multiple centuries they are sore about.... it's not about either the land or the resources, that's just a very welcome bonus. It does not help though that the age old pattern of the Slavs wanting to separate from the Russians with the Russians wanting to re-integrate them is repeating, this is something that has been going on for many centuries of to and fro. Ukraine is a kind of schizophrenic remnant of the original rulers of what is now Russia in many ways.What was the inevitable humiliation of Russia that needed to be averted by war?
If anything the war itself has been a colossal humiliation for Russia. It took them two years to push past the suburbs of Donetsk. They suffered probably hundreds of thousands of casualties. The Black Sea Fleet got humiliated. And they significantly worsened their diplomatic relations with important economic partners.
How had Putin no choice? What would have happened if he didn't invade?
Russia had everything to start with. The largest landmass on Earth. Plenty of natural resources. And an enviable position between the world's centers of productions and centers of consumption. It doesn't seem like they were on the verge of some irreversible catastrophe, except maybe through the eyes of a megalomaniac or a paranoiac.
The Jew thing is a red herring. All that is needed for Nazism is any kind of National Socialism (Socialism being the state being in control of society at a granular level) combined with a "foreign" boogyman within your borders on which you can blame everything wrong with the world.... simple. Jews just happened to be the one the Germans blamed. There is nothing stopping Jews from being Nazi's.... in their case their boogeyman is the Arabs. In the case of Ukraine the boogeyman is the Russians.How do you define Nazism? What characteristics of Nazism did the Kyiv government have? How many of these characteristics does the Russian government have?
I don't see any of the main characteristics Nazism in Zelensky's governemnt (irredentism and expansionism, totalitarianism, virulent anti-semitism and anti-liberalsm). If anything Russia's regime is closer to that, but I would never qualify it as Nazi either. Using this term dishonestly is an insult to all the real victims of Nazism. The only authoritian policies of the Ukrainian state came after and as a reaction the invasion itself, so they cannot be used as a justification.
Doesn't it seem odd to describe as Nazi a multiparty democracy electing a Jewish Russian-speaking president?
I guess you'll say it's just an elaborate ploy. But I suggest you try to think a bit more.
It didn't, it posed a thread to Russians in Ukraine. The same justification incidentally that led to the war of Texan independence which drew American military aid. The moment Ukraine took the bait and made it about fighting the ethnically Russian they gave Russia a Cassius Belli on a silver platter.In what credible way did this country, Ukraine, that you viciously describe as poor and corrupt, pose an existential threat to Russia? (The largest country on this planet with the largest nuclear arsenal...)
You guys always invoke this existential threat, but you never explain it because you know it doesn't make sense.
The Russian public might have believed it if they listened to enough propaganda but this does not make it true in any way.
The mistake is to place moral weight on the invasion as if it happened in isolation or even is the most important part of the story. Morals have nothing to do with it other than as propaganda.Nobody says that everything is either good or bad. You're the one using this as a straw man to discredit your opponents. But there are things in life that are bad. Imperialism or expansionism, and the wars and suffering that ensue, are bad, wheter they come from NATO or Russia. This is very easy to say for anybody with moral principles. People can have moral principles (ascribing a moral value to actions) without necessarily engaging in dichotomous black-and-white thiking as you seem to suggest. This might sound utopian to the most cynical among us, but it's just the most basic common sense. Saying that the invasion was wrong does not mean that one thinks that NATO is a a faultless force of good. There is no link between the two. It is your post, by making this assumption, that engages in black-and-white thinking and thus completely lacks nuance.
No I never said Ukraine is a Nazi state, it has Nazi elements it uses to it's advantage.... or did at least until it backfired.Overall your message appears confused. You seem to have internalized different propaganda messages that end up contradictory. One one hand, you say Russia invaded because Ukraine was National Socialist. On the other, Ukraine is a pet-project of the West that tries to transform it into a decadent homosexual liberal hellhole. Despite what's being said by the third-rate propaganda you might have consumed online, national socialism and liberalism are opposed ideologies. A cursory reading of any encycopledia would tell you.
Maybe next time, instead of this confused mess, try to chose just one hateful propaganda message and stick with it? It would have a bit more credibility.
Ukraine is a corrupt sh-hole where the most powerful or wealthy people get their own way and has been spiraling into depravity imported from the West for a long time now.... just as my own country has incidentally. This has nothing to do with ideology it's about influence and usefulness. I don't hate them, I pity them, I know what they did to themselves because I live it first hand only in a different way. It's about mafia factions vying for turf while having political fronts representing them in government... or the political factions having crime syndicates greasing their wheels. Ukraine is not so much a pet project as a convenient proxy and slush fund for wealthy Western politicians.... I dunno if the biolabs thing has any validity but if true yes there is that threat too.... what would your country do if it believed a hostile force operated biolabs on it's border?
As for the supposed ideologies.... in the West the Liberals are not actually Liberal but by now open Leftists and the Libertarians are crypto fascists who show their true colours as soon as you present half a threat to them.... no one actually is what they pretend to be.