[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: War News Thread: Round 6

[saamohod]

Looks like another Russian Wunderwaffe is getting dethroned by the Patriot.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663147104959713280

It seems Russia is desperate to score at least a token victory over the pesky Patriot system that keeps humiliating their ego and military industry

Spoiler :

A car in Kyiv after getting struck by falling missile debris today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663150948774998019

 

[Akka]

Man, you chose some strange hills to die on...

Meh, it's the same hills as usual : "USA bad, EU bad, whoever oppose them good even if they do the same things but much worse than what we find US and EU bad to begin with". We got a few like that.

 

[Kyriakos]

Democracy tends to work that way, different people have different views. Itself doesn't mean their views are what you pick up, but they are different.
Since the thread is about "news", certainly the stupid statement by Graham about (inferred how nice it is) many russians dying, is news, both due to being uttered by a senator and its uncanny tone. It's not unique, but it is irresponsible.
Anyway, "news thread" means any actual news on this war have a place here, and I want to suspect it implicitly also means that no such posts are to be excuses for ad hominems like you did above.

 

[Verbose]

Well, is Graham wrong in a factual sense? There is a powerful lot of dying that has been done by Russian troops. Contextually: Liberty-or-death on the Ukranian side — Empire-or-death on the Russian.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Gleefully speaking of so many dead russians was what was heard, it does not depend at all on being continuous with "best money spent'.

*truck reversing sounds*

Graham's words were "Russians are dying - best money we've ever spent".

Gleefully speaking of dead russians your money bought, on the other hand, is surely the US we know and love.

 

[saamohod]

genuinely curious: how would you know? did somebody spot them launch?

I can't tell exactly what methods are used to discover details about Russian missile launches. From what I've gathered so far it seems to be several sources, such as local OSINT in Russia, monitoring of the air force radio chatter, visual observation of aircraft operations as well as satellite observation. As someone assumed before, Russians could themselves inform other parties about the launches as per protocol.
The thing is that this kind of information rarely if ever turns out to be false. And it was true this time again.
However worth noting that today's unusual daylight missile barrage seems to have arrived unexpectedly.

 

[Remorseless1]

It's just simply awful Lindsey Graham said such awful things about a fascist regime in the middle of a fourth brutal invasion of a much smaller neighboring country in the most brutal way. One should always polite about a country that tortures and murders civilians, kidnap children, and fires missiles into residential complexes while turning cities into piles of rubble.

If people are upset about the terrible toll of dead and maimed Russian soldiers, perhaps mention the person who sent Russian soldiers into Ukraine to kill and be killed.

 

[Lexicus]

Well, is Graham wrong in a factual sense?

Graham exhibits his usual bloodthirstiness; he and his ilk are really not much better than Putin.

What we, as in civilized people, want to buy with our money is the defense and security of Ukraine. That Russians must die for this is a sad necessity, not something to exult over.

 

[Verbose]

And in other news, a suspected Russian "spy-whale", a beluga, has been encountered in Swedish waters. He is currently suspected of being "Hvaldimir" (Whaledimir in Norwegian) who a while back turned up in Norwegian waters. He was at that time still carrying some kind of camera harness. This time he does not, and is suspected of having gone AWOL from his service with the Russian armed forces. He was encountered playing with some pieces of rope hanging into the water in a marina at Hunnebostrand, Sweden:

Teorin: Rysk spionval i Sverige

En vitval som har väckt stor uppståndelse i Hunnebostrand kan vara Hvaldimir – en rysk, tränad ”spionval” som rymt från ett uppdrag. ”Det är så pass ovanligt så det mesta pekar på det”, säger marinbiologen Kennet Lundin till SvD.

www.svd.se

Maybe Sweden can ask him to defect for all the herring he can eat?

 

[Verbose]

Graham exhibits his usual bloodthirstiness; he and his ilk are really not much better than Putin.

What we, as in civilized people, want to buy with our money is the defense and security of Ukraine. That Russians must die for this is a sad necessity, not something to exult over.

Lindsey Graham is a brand of politician that would be funny, if he wasn't actually sinister, yes.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Gleefully speaking of dead russians your money bought, on the other hand, is surely the US we know and love.

When you just read the Russian propaganda, you get the story wrong. The "video" of Graham you saw was edited to string a bunch of unconnected items as if they were one statement. Your evident dislike of the US is clear and your love of Putin has led you astray.

Russia Issues Arrest Warrant For GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham Over Ukraine Comments

The Donald Trump ally described U.S. military assistance to Ukraine as “the best money we’ve ever spent.”

www.huffpost.com

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Looks like another Russian Wunderwaffe is getting dethroned by the Patriot.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663147104959713280

It seems Russia is desperate to score at least a token victory over the pesky Patriot system that keeps humiliating their ego and military industry

Spoiler :

A car in Kyiv after getting struck by falling missile debris today

https://twitter.com/x/status/1663150948774998019

View attachment 663339

After the initial lacuster performance in the first Gulf War, Patriot has become very effective, mostly thanks to US-Israeli collaboration. Israel has had the opportunity to test ballistic projectiles interception regularly for decades, courtesy of the Palestinians. Thanks to this US-Israeli collaboration several systems have been developed: the 'David Sling' which is intended to replace the Patriot as medium-long range interceptor, the 'Iron Dome' system for short ranges and even the Arrow system for very long range extra-atmospheric interception, so ICBM interception.

In current international scenery with Russia continuously bullying the international community with "our words (and our agressions) are backed by nuclear weapons" kind of narrative, the interest for these systems has increased hugely (in fact recently Germany tried to acquire the Arrow 3 system from Israel but was blocked by USA because they want to sell them its own home-built THAAD ABM system) so i see them to be mass produced, exported and even other similar systems to be produced by some European countries, SK and Japan, to build an effective ABM defense system, which seems entirely feasible now in contrast with the old cold war times. So Russian cockiness may cost them his nuclear deterrence too, the only thing that keeps them military relevant.

 

[aelf]

Man, you chose some strange hills to die on...

He's a Greek former Golden Dawn supporter. What else has he got except strange hills to die on?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Back to news please.

 

[red_elk]

When you just read the Russian propaganda, you get the story wrong. The "video" of Graham you saw was edited to string a bunch of unconnected items as if they were one statement.

This time the "Russian propaganda" was apparently published by Ukrainian president's office:

Initial extracts of the conversation released by Zelenskiy's office had not made clear that the two remarks were made in different parts of the conversation.

Dismissing Russian criticism, U.S. Senator Graham praises Ukrainian resistance

U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham disputed Russian criticism of his support for Ukraine on Sunday, saying he had simply praised the spirit of Ukrainians in resisting a Russian invasion with assistance provided by Washington.

www.reuters.com

 

[red_elk]

What's up with the Bayraktars?

Bayraktar TB2 drones were hailed as Ukraine's savior and the future of warfare. A year later, they've practically disappeared.

Ukraine's killer TB2 drones initially caused havoc on the battlefield but are now largely reduced to reconnaissance duties, an expert said.

www.businessinsider.com

• In the early months of the Russia-Ukraine war, Bayraktar TB2 drones were hailed as Ukraine's savior.
• However, a year later, nearly all of them are believed to have been shot down by Russian forces.
• The remaining killer drones are now reduced to reconnaissance duties, an expert said.

Indeed, a recent assessment argues Russia is on the front foot in the drone war and estimated that its forces were taking down about 10,000 Ukrainian drones every month.
Electronic warfare is a "critical component" of Russia's tactics and contributing to the enormous losses of Ukrainian drones, a report released by the UK's Royal United Services Institute found.

 

[Wastl]

Nothing is "up" with them. Thats just how things go in war. The Russians failed badly to counter Bayraktars, so after losses started to mount they overcompensated in their attempt to stop these drones, putting a lot of attention on jamming (which has its own downsides). This made the use of Bayraktars as offensive weapons less effective, so the Ukrainians put it to other uses. This wasn't that much of an issue, because far better weapons for long-range strikes were made available to them as the war continued (HIMARS, other long-range artillery, now Storm Shadow, etc.). The Russians still fail badly at dealing with cheap disposable drones that hit their frontline troops as well.

All that is a completely normal development. One side has an advantage, the other develops a counter-measure for it. Now the former can either try and improve the system against the counter-measures, alter its use for a role in which it still works, or find alternative weapons to regain the advantage.

 

[thetrooper]

And in other news, a suspected Russian "spy-whale", a beluga, has been encountered in Swedish waters. He is currently suspected of being "Hvaldimir" (Whaledimir in Norwegian) who a while back turned up in Norwegian waters. He was at that time still carrying some kind of camera harness. This time he does not, and is suspected of having gone AWOL from his service with the Russian armed forces. He was encountered playing with some pieces of rope hanging into the water in a marina at Hunnebostrand, Sweden:

Teorin: Rysk spionval i Sverige

En vitval som har väckt stor uppståndelse i Hunnebostrand kan vara Hvaldimir – en rysk, tränad ”spionval” som rymt från ett uppdrag. ”Det är så pass ovanligt så det mesta pekar på det”, säger marinbiologen Kennet Lundin till SvD.

www.svd.se

Maybe Sweden can ask him to defect for all the herring he can eat?

Ah yes! Hvaldimir. He was passing by the coast where I live. Seems to be a nice Russian exile.

 

[red_elk]

Nothing is "up" with them. Thats just how things go in war. The Russians failed badly to counter Bayraktars, so after losses started to mount they overcompensated in their attempt to stop these drones, putting a lot of attention on jamming (which has its own downsides). This made the use of Bayraktars as offensive weapons less effective, so the Ukrainians put it to other uses. This wasn't that much of an issue, because far better weapons for long-range strikes were made available to them as the war continued (HIMARS, other long-range artillery, now Storm Shadow, etc.). The Russians still fail badly at dealing with cheap disposable drones that hit their frontline troops as well.

All that is a completely normal development. One side has an advantage, the other develops a counter-measure for it. Now the former can either try and improve the system against the counter-measures, alter its use for a role in which it still works, or find alternative weapons to regain the advantage.

It's quite hard to conclude from the article claiming that Ukraine is losing 10,000 drones a month, that Russians "failed badly" at countering them.
I agree that enormous losses of Ukrainian drones is a completely normal development though.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's quite hard to conclude from the article claiming that Ukraine is losing 10,000 drones a month, that Russians "failed badly" at countering them.

Step 1. Drones were used, Russians "failed badly" at countering them initially.
Step 2. Russians improved their countering and then they "were taking down about 10,000 Ukrainian drones every month."

It's quite easy to conclude from the article, since it's mentioned at the very start of the article:
In the early months of the Russia-Ukraine war, Turkey's Bayraktar TB2 drones were hailed as Ukraine's savior and the future of warfare.

Multiple reports and videos surfaced of Ukraine using the weapons to strike Russian tanks, armor, and patrol boats.

I agree that enormous losses of Ukrainian drones is a completely normal development though.

Russia rather sends it's troops to do the enourmous losses. Along with the enourmous losses on the Ukrainian civilians it inflicts.

Which is also a normal development.