Single Player bugs and crashes - After the 29th of March

[JosEPh_II]

The pathing issue has been around for awhile. I just thought it had been designed to follow the best defended path, so I never said anything.

So if you want a unit to follow a road inside your empire (any unit) you have to guide the unit(s) in short 1 tile per movement point increments. I've had units (workers in particular, but all do it) refuse to use a road across a river but will go sideways 1 tile to a hill and then move to a tile across the river and then next turn to the original destination. And this is without using the auto stuff. It's very obvious and can be seen in any game at anytime.

I micromanage all my units movements where the destination is more than a single turn away, especially in unclaimed territory.

JosEPh

 

[zeinul]

turn never ends.
don't remember which SVN is this, but it's not older than a week.

 

[Koshling]

-Might have been a golden age. I wasn't really thinking about that when I build that wonder.

-I'm playing v29 vanilla so if its partially fixed in the SVN that is good. (Generals) Though I am baffled why anyone would ever spend a General on scouting unit over getting almost enough gold to pay off most of your first anticrime tower. The permanent xp bonus is just amazing icing at that point. Play style differences I guess.

-Those specific BLATANT LIES pathing issues were in a game I saved over... though can be easily repeated in many games (seriously I think I remember complaining about this v17ish). Simply click on a destination far away... the mapped route will show... and the be redone in a quick flash. Clicking on the unit at that point shows the alternate route.

The specifics on that case were an under slung 'U' mud path around desert/salt flat area with the destination 3 or 4 squares above the area the were leaving from. This was the only mud path completed between the points, at the time. It did get better pathing after I spammed in territory mud paths for a while.

What happens is that the path is confirmed and then in a half second flash it ignores that route, repaths to a different one, and takes the different one. Often a worse one. This is blatantly common occurrence that makes me have to check units on long trips all the time. Just send a unit across huge, unupgraded, distances and the path will basically always do a at least slightly different route.

The only way I could see it being an issue on my end is if somehow months old data in some cache is trumping modern methods.

On pathing - I play a LOT and have never seen this (taking a different path to the on initially shown, not taking a better defended path over a shorter one sometimes [which is intended if you have AI pathing on]. However, one thing I note is how we are making the long moves - I habitually right click and hold to see the proposed path and only release when I have send the path it intends to take, whereas you are just right-clicking (I assume - or are you using a moveTo command?).

On generals - it CERTAINLY should not have used a general to enhance a scout, but it SHOULD have used a general as a great commander and then sent it out ACCOMPANYING a scout (and another unit) to get xp. Are you sure this is not what you saw (scout with a great commander alongside)?

My own view is that your first two GGs should be turned into GCs (if you are playing with that option) and exp'd up as fast as possible - a GC with decent exp is FAR more valuable than the output from a great military instructor (IMO). However, as you say, this is likely a play style thing, and it never occurred to me that NOT using the first couple as GCs was sensible, so I'm interested in hearing wider opinions...

 

[Koshling]

turn never ends.
don't remember which SVN is this, but it's not older than a week.

Reproduced the issue, and analyzing now. Fix should be on the SVN later today.

Edit - the problem is actually already baked into the save. Some groups have units in them that do not think they are on the same plot as the rest of the unit! I have no idea how this can happen (so I can't fix it). I am making a change to validate group members all being in the same place at load, and forcing errant ones to the same plot as the group head unit if not - that should 'fix' up the game state on load, but it does mean we have a lurking bug somewhere that is giving rise to this.

Edit 2 - I've found a circumstance that I think might give rise to the underlying condition, so I'll fix that too (but I don't have a test case that causes it - it's just a potential flaw I can see in the code, so it's a speculative fix only)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

On pathing - I play a LOT and have never seen this (taking a different path to the on initially shown, not taking a better defended path over a shorter one sometimes [which is intended if you have AI pathing on]. However, one thing I note is how we are making the long moves - I habitually right click and hold to see the proposed path and only release when I have send the path it intends to take, whereas you are just right-clicking (I assume - or are you using a moveTo command?).

I have to say that I see it happening a lot. Gatherers building trails somewhere almost never follow the path that right-click hold shows. Stacks on a long move will change path rather than end a turn in a city on the way to their destination often adding a whole turn per city avoided to the time it takes to get to the destination.

Note: I have removed the ignore terrain from eagles and hawks which was causing actual paths to be the slowest path.

 

[Thunderbrd]

On pathing - I play a LOT and have never seen this (taking a different path to the on initially shown, not taking a better defended path over a shorter one sometimes [which is intended if you have AI pathing on]. However, one thing I note is how we are making the long moves - I habitually right click and hold to see the proposed path and only release when I have send the path it intends to take, whereas you are just right-clicking (I assume - or are you using a moveTo command?).

On generals - it CERTAINLY should not have used a general to enhance a scout, but it SHOULD have used a general as a great commander and then sent it out ACCOMPANYING a scout (and another unit) to get xp. Are you sure this is not what you saw (scout with a great commander alongside)?

My own view is that your first two GGs should be turned into GCs (if you are playing with that option) and exp'd up as fast as possible - a GC with decent exp is FAR more valuable than the output from a great military instructor (IMO). However, as you say, this is likely a play style thing, and it never occurred to me that NOT using the first couple as GCs was sensible, so I'm interested in hearing wider opinions...

Yeah, we see the pathing issue a lot. Figured you knew about it and would be working it out eventually.

I never use GGs as GCs until I mean to build a truly devestating stack. Until then, its all about getting those exp into the units built from the city. I agree that in a short term and focused scale, the GC is a better alternative, but that's also a GG you're putting in the field to risk its death and if it dies it will never continue to offer benefit thereafter. It also only affects the stack and potentially nearby that stack, so multiple fronts don't benefit. By gaining the +2 xp (and sometimes the gold is significant too) on ALL units built from that city, you can really build up a LOT of added xp which can lead to a far more powerful military wherever your units happen to be and a little less focused power on your stack(s). If you initial attack or massive staged defense fails, the units that continue to pour out of training continue to share the benefits of the GG used to provide more xp while no more units will be getting any assistance from the ones that died in the beginning of the war.

A few extra xp alone can mean added utility to units, not just strength but potentially added movement, healing, putting units closer to unlocking superior upper end promos. I can surround and destroy a stack with a general with my better promoted troops and I've NEVER in any version seen units from the AI being generated at half the skill the units I'm plugging out are. Thus they lose 20 or more units to one of mine in most wars. And the piling up of XP from generals is a huge source of that.

 

[Koshling]

I have to say that I see it happening a lot. Gatherers building trails somewhere almost never follow the path that right-click hold shows. Stacks on a long move will change path rather than end a turn in a city on the way to their destination often adding a whole turn per city avoided to the time it takes to get to the destination.

Note: I have removed the ignore terrain from eagles and hawks which was causing actual paths to be the slowest path.

Yeah, we see the pathing issue a lot. Figured you knew about it and would be working it out eventually.

Nope - I need save games and instructions that illustrate it please (for regular moves ideally - worker trail building is a lot more involved)

 

[Thunderbrd]

k... next time I see it I'll stop, save, and upload the save here for ya after confirming that reloading the game enables it to be witnessed again. Unfortunately, you usually only find out that the path shown has been deceptive after you've moved so it'd have to be a matter of saving at the beginning of each turn and finding the same unit pathed to the same location to be able to replicate the issue. If I can get that narrowed down I'll share it with ya.

 

[BlueGenie]

The CTD is fixed, thanks Koshling, but now I have another problem.

All of my units with forest type promotions still have them but have lost the abilities given by those promotions after doing the recalc due to new changes in the SVN.
In short the promotons are still there, still show the right info on hover, but doing select and hover on the unit the abilities are not shown from the Forest promotions and when moving it is clear that the Forest Double Move most assuredly is NOT active.
I seem to recall someone doing some terrain/feature work recently, can this be due to that?

On further investigation it is not due to recalculation. The old save (CTD) now sports the same problem after loading it without doing a recalc, and recalc does not fix it.

While I'm talking promotions and displays, can not Camouflage be changed to simply +10% Defence instead of having fourteen different entries showing on all hover texts?

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

The CTD is fixed, thanks Koshling, but now I have another problem.

All of my units with forest type promotions still have them but have lost the abilities given by those promotions after doing the recalc due to new changes in the SVN.
In short the promotons are still there, still show the right info on hover, but doing select and hover on the unit the abilities are not shown from the Forest promotions and when moving it is clear that the Forest Double Move most assuredly is NOT active.
I seem to recall someone doing some terrain/feature work recently, can this be due to that?

On further investigation it is not due to recalculation. The old save (CTD) now sports the same problem after loading it without doing a recalc, and recalc does not fix it.

While I'm talking promotions and displays, can not Camouflage be changed to simply +10% Defence instead of having fourteen different entries showing on all hover texts?

Cheers

I'll look into this. It may relate to other problems I'm trying to sort out here.

On your note regarding Camo... I've been thinking on that myself... thinking we need a couple of new tags to replace this sort of thing (iNonCityCombatModifier and iWildernessCombatModifier) The first would apply whenever the unit is not in a city, fort or town and the second would apply only if the territory is unimproved outside of routes. The way that promotion is displayed is absolutely a problem. I suppose those both should be split into attack and defense and overall...

 

[Thunderbrd]

Rev 5313:
Researched Economics, 2 turns later when using the Domestic Advisor it becomes unusuable on certain cities. Clicking on the cities in the DomAdv moves the camera there by about 1 tile every few seconds and clicks take ages to register. This happens only to some cites and the build order in the cities seems to have no impact on the behaviour. Selection and behaviour outside the DomAdv is normal.

Savegame and CustomDomAdv.txt attached. This happens on my PC regarding the cities of Ulaanbataar, Kazan, Tiflis, Samarqand and New Sarai. This also keeps through a save/reload.

View attachment 349097

I'll take a LOOK but I don't have much confidence I'll be able to fix this. If its an obvious fix maybe. I'll at least report back what I CAN figure out on the matter.

 

[BlueGenie]

Are you saying that having plains defence (for instance) means it does not help when in a city that is on a plain?
I always thought it did, at least with things like hill defence that archers have I seem to recall showing up in hovers when checking attack possibility.

If it does maybe you should think twice before removing in city terrain/feature defence values as that might mean having to go through and increasing most city defending units city defence values to compensate for the removal of terrain/feature defence that helped before any changes.

Cheers

 

[Thunderbrd]

It probably does... but its not right for camouflage to protect in that kind of circumstance is it?

We do have an iDefense tag that could be used to replace all those modifiers, particularly in the time being.

Does the team wish me to adjust that promo to use that tag instead?

 

[God-Emperor]

In regular BtS you do not get a terrain type defensive bonus if there is a feature on the plot since it is an "if-else" type deal where the "if" is done if there is a feature on the plot (and only checks for feature defense, not terrain) and the "else" is done if there is no feature (and this is where the terrain defense modifier is added in).

In C2C, however, it always adds in the terrain defensive modifier. (In the v29 source this is at line 13274 in CvUnit.cpp for where it is actually added in.)

Hills and cities are not features or terrain, so they are always added in too even in regular BtS.

So if a promotion gives the same X% defensive bonus on all terrain types then it should be identical in functionality (and superior in the much shorter information presented) to give it a plain X% defensive bonus instead. Of course, if any terrain types are left out in the current version then it is not identical. I think all the terrestrial land types are covered by the promotion (in fact, in v29 two of them are in there twice: the salt flats and dunes).

 

[Thunderbrd]

Good breakdown, but should this promotion assist units that are defending in cities? The iDefenseModifier tag would include units defending cities as well. And I kinda figured it may not be good to have the option to only assign the value for units defending where there is no improvement, or at least outside cities, forts, and towns.

That said, the whole concept of the promotion will probably either change in general or advance into an important promotion tree of its own, which could certainly make use of those two new tag concepts.

But yeah, for now the easiest would be the iDefenseModifier.

 

[alpha29]

Hi there, it would be nice if anybody can help me.

Mod version: v29, downloaded
Used map: C2C_Archipelago
World size: Immense, 50 civs

Repro:
1. Load attached save
2. Press end of turn button

Actual result:
Crash without any message. Logs are attached.

I can provide any additional info if needed.

 

[Taxman66]

V29
I was poking around at looks like the Sparta culture is either unbuildable or the 'pedia entry for it is incomplete in that it has no prerequisites. I noticed this poking around the leaders and looking at their (culture) prereqs.

*Apologizes if this was already pointed out or addressed

 

[Koshling]

Hi there, it would be nice if anybody can help me.

Mod version: v29, downloaded
Used map: C2C_Archipelago
World size: Immense, 50 civs

Repro:
1. Load attached save
2. Press end of turn button

Actual result:
Crash without any message. Logs are attached.

I can provide any additional info if needed.

Can you provide the minidump please - its the key evidence (will be in the same folder that your BTS executable is in)

 

[alpha29]

Can you provide the minidump please - its the key evidence (will be in the same folder that your BTS executable is in)

Sure.

 

[Icerimp]

Hey, love the mod. I'm experiencing a CTD bug with v29.

To reproduce, load the attached save and then end the turn.

Please let me know if I should provide anything else.