Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Dancing Hoskuld]

UNIT_MERCHANTFLEET appears to be the one I was recalling that doesn't have a build cost so is given to players through another means. (Not sure what means that is exactly though.)

UNIT_CARRACK_MERCHANT does have a build cost so you are correct on that. The XML that activates its mission is:

           <iBaseTrade>65</iBaseTrade>
           <iTradeMultiplier>3</iTradeMultiplier>

Which states to the DLL that it can perform a trade mission and if it does so, the parameters in which it operates.

Now... with that said, there COULD be some hidden python I don't know about but the amounts are working properly here. It looks like I need to take another look at the 'return to base' teleportation portion. If there is python on this, it should be eliminated because it could be causing a second 'teleportation' that would be not only unnecessary but incorrect.

UNIT_MERCHANTFLEET is provided by an event.

Yeah, I needed to change trading units to being sent back to the city of origin instead. Of course for those who think they can now train their merchants and merchant ships on the border to get the fastest routing, they should be aware that the distance between city of origin and city where the mission is enacted does make a difference in how much gold is obtained by the mission. My next commit will have trade units going back to city of origin instead.

The way the unit returns to capital is via a flag somewhere just like the for the Spy. I don't know where that is. It will cause problem for merchant ships if the capital is land locked.

There is a mod that returns any using this flag/tag to the nearest city it can travel to but none from place it was built. As far as I know there is no information held on the unit to identify where it was built. It would be quite useful if there was.

Having the merchant return to where it was built is fairly useless as a model since historically and in game most ships are built in your navel yards. If you could set the home port on a merchant ship then it would be useful.

Also I thought we were going to make the merchant ships traverse rather than teleport to make piracy better,

 

[JosEPh_II]

Also I thought we were going to make the merchant ships traverse rather than teleport to make piracy better,

They only Teleport After the trade mission is done, which I'm sure you know. But I'm gonna state the obvious anyway.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The way the unit returns to capital is via a flag somewhere just like the for the Spy. I don't know where that is. It will cause problem for merchant ships if the capital is land locked.

It's in the dll as a part of the mission programming.

Having the merchant return to where it was built is fairly useless as a model since historically and in game most ships are built in your navel yards. If you could set the home port on a merchant ship then it would be useful.

Since setting up a home port would require extensive and soon to be obsolete programming for the UI to make this selection, it is temporarily much easier to define the home port as the place the unit is trained. Is there REALLY a reason to spend the tens of hours to give players (and then program the AI) an ability to set a home port when this...

Also I thought we were going to make the merchant ships traverse rather than teleport to make piracy better,

is actually the eventual goal? The returning to port of origin is a 2 minute fix for now that should suffice until further development takes place on this part of the project. There is no reason not to just patch this over for now. When we get to the full frontal on the project, the money you get from a delivery will be based on where you've taken from and where you're delivering to and when you make a dropoff, you can pick up in that foreign port as well. It'll be interacting with equipment and inventory systems if that's available in the game by option, or will be a matter of establishing an ongoing trade route as we discussed that causes the unit to go on an automated routine. As we've also discussed, there are quite a few factors to this and thus cause not to try to stuff it into this version release we're trying to push the last minute stuff on. So for now, this is an elegant way to burn off the edges of the ropes so to speak.

You mentioned it would be useful to expose the city of origin to python? I did program unit city of origin tracking during this cycle... I should be able to expose it for you if you need it.

 

[Raledon]

Yes Mercy Rule Only applies to Mastery Victory score keeping No Other. In other words Don't use Mercy Rule Unless you have Mastery active as well. This was built by Aforress and Not by any C2C modder.

My main issue was the description, I expected it to count the score (as appearing in the bottom right) instead of the mastery's player score. Glad to hear it's otherwise working as intended.

I'm hunting down the problem they have with staffing tons of crime units in their cities. Please post a game that shows them having a problem with this if you've confirmed you've found the issue!

I'm attaching My save (same as the one for the screenshots below). The city of Thapus is a prime example- there are 3 city guards stationed, with 5 highwaymen and 5 partisans, standing on +600 crime.
The greek's city Pergamon is another example, with 16 partizans, +1K crime, and no guards (there are 3 stationed on a nearby tile for some reason)

When the Carrack Merchant returns to the capital, what has it just done? We should now be able to set it to return to the city it was trained in and that might be what it's doing of a sort. There could be something special about how they get into the game... are they coming from an event or are they actually being trained with hammers somewhere?

As normal as can be. Trained, sent to a mission, returns to the landlocked capital. Still quite profitable, though. (There's a merchant stationed in the save ready to be used, if it helps in any way)

Are you sure you're not looking at 1.30 give or take? Is this what you're seeing on the Actual portion of the display? I need a screenshot of what you're looking at if that's not it. It looks fine on my end as I'm looking at it, even in your game.

Spoiler :

Hovering over the +/- of priest

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well... there's a bug in the 'Actual' calculation somewhere but it's only a display bug. And in most of your cities it is working without a problem. I'm not sure what is causing that but the actual calculations are a labyrinth of code I tend to allow to be bugged if it happens to be. It was inherited.

Thank you for the save. While I was in your other one you posted earlier I found at least one example problem spot but I think there's more. I'm addressing the one I'm aware of. I may be able to find more with the other and with the one Joe posted.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The "Actual" calculation is off in a number of places - eg when you display buildings available to be built by cost ie . It seems to be the 'Actual' value taking into consideration all national level adjustments but not any local or city only level modifications. It is probably that way because of cache/speed type considerations.

 

[strategyonly]

current SVN, have a few error messages from GERMAN text . . one is in the pic . . .

 

[Raledon]

Glad to hear my saves are of help.

Another simple bug is that Harappan Fake Gems is tagged as World, Team and National wonder. I assume that the intent is for it to be a world wonder (since it effectively overrides the other two), but the UI shows it as a national wonder.

Spoiler :

 

[JosEPh_II]

Do you have Unlimited Wonders Option On or Off?

 

[Raledon]

Do you have Unlimited Wonders Option On or Off?

Unlimited Wonders is on

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Another simple bug is that Harappan Fake Gems is tagged as World, Team and National wonder. I assume that the intent is for it to be a world wonder (since it effectively overrides the other two), but the UI shows it as a national wonder.

Ming Vases and Terra Sigilliata have the same error. It is part of my extensions to my Bead-Toy-Pottery mod (also includes Rope and others).

The one that stops you loosing access to important early manufactured resources like rope because buildings would normally go obsolete. I have had no comments on it so did not extend it to the other manufactured resources like the metals.

 

[Raledon]

Ming Vases and Terra Sigilliata have the same error. It is part of my extensions to my Bead-Toy-Pottery mod (also includes Rope and others).

The one that stops you loosing access to important early manufactured resources like rope because buildings would normally go obsolete. I have had no comments on it so did not extend it to the other manufactured resources like the metals.

I see. Hard to know if such occurrences are intentional or not, so I prefer to report them first and ask questions later.



Seaturtle myth has an issue with "... built in every city", as can be seen in the pic below.

Spoiler :

EDIT: A strange occurrence with revolts. On the second turn of the revolt, one of my cities decided to turn itself over, with my units not even getting kicked out. SS and save attached

Spoiler :

Guards, and even a dog, in the city owned by the revolting russians

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I see. Hard to know if such occurrences are intentional or not, so I prefer to report them first and ask questions later.

Sorry for not being clear enough Thanks for the report and it is now fixed on SVN.

Plus, to others, I still need some feedback so I can move the stuff into core and extend the concept to other manufactured resources.

Seaturtle myth has an issue with "... built in every city", as can be seen in the pic below.

Hunting through the XML so I can fix

 

[JosEPh_II]

Plus, to others, I still need some feedback so I can move the stuff into core and extend the concept to other manufactured resources.

I don't have any objections I can think of atm.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Plus, to others, I still need some feedback so I can move the stuff into core and extend the concept to other manufactured resources.

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to require buildings that should go obsolete to enable the more modern ones. I've given more feedback on this probably when you weren't looking... when I get more time we can discuss this in greater depth.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to require buildings that should go obsolete to enable the more modern ones. I've given more feedback on this probably when you weren't looking... when I get more time we can discuss this in greater depth.

The problem was that, for rope and the others, buildings go obsolete and at times you can't or don't get the time to build the new ones that provide the resource. My solution fixes that by

1. no building goes obsolete
   
   
2. upgrades don't replace the old they just provide extra whatever but adjusted to take into consideration what you now don't loose from the replaced building
   
   
3. some upgrades can't be built in every city because they require x of the earlier buildings to build the new. This was mostly at the Factory level to reflect the reality that not every city would have a rope factory

The reason for keeping the old building was so that we could move towards a volummetric approach later. Another reason to keep the old is to allow specialist buildings eg high quality pottery building to be based on the number of potters you have.

I think this has been in place throughout v37 and possible in v36. We have not had any complaints about loosing access to the resources that I did in it, so it has fixed that at least. We used to get a lot of complaints about the loss of rope for example.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to require buildings that should go obsolete to enable the more modern ones.

What determines a building should go obsolete? Some arbitrary and artificial ceiling?

I just removed/changed an Obsolete tag for Wild Herbs that was ridiculous. We were losing Wild herbs at Sedentary Lifestyle. Really? Wild herbs are still used and gathered even today. We have tons more "dumb" things in the xml like that.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The problem was that, for rope and the others, buildings go obsolete and at times you can't or don't get the time to build the new ones that provide the resource. My solution fixes that by

1. no building goes obsolete
   
   
2. upgrades don't replace the old they just provide extra whatever but adjusted to take into consideration what you now don't loose from the replaced building
   
   
3. some upgrades can't be built in every city because they require x of the earlier buildings to build the new. This was mostly at the Factory level to reflect the reality that not every city would have a rope factory

The reason for keeping the old building was so that we could move towards a volummetric approach later. Another reason to keep the old is to allow specialist buildings eg high quality pottery building to be based on the number of potters you have.

I think this has been in place throughout v37 and possible in v36. We have not had any complaints about loosing access to the resources that I did in it, so it has fixed that at least. We used to get a lot of complaints about the loss of rope for example.

So in the modern era, you're building huts. These huts provide the resource and do so for what amounts to next to nothing in production cost because they were designed for Prehistoric/Ancient era. At that point, you don't actually then need the upgrades at all.

I believe I've come up with a couple of solutions, and that was part of what I was discussing earlier in the I want to help thread. Again, we're not ready to discuss it in full yet. For now, what you have done is functional with where its been applied I think.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What determines a building should go obsolete? Some arbitrary and artificial ceiling?

I just removed/changed an Obsolete tag for Wild Herbs that was ridiculous. We were losing Wild herbs at Sedentary Lifestyle. Really? Wild herbs are still used and gathered even today. We have tons more "dumb" things in the xml like that.

Slightly different path of discussion but I prefer upgrades over obsoletions, with obsoletion taking place a long time later. You make a great point about wild herbs. Although it's questionable whether we tend to use wild herbs or gardened or farmed ones in general and where. Or whether we're talking about a resource or a building really.

Another big part of what I want us to consider is producing centers vs retail centers. We've allowed a lot of overlap here and that's historically accurate. However, as time goes on, the two roles, including distribution, become very different things. I have some ways in mind to address and clarify that stuff.

I know both of you have warned me to consider the balance before running headlong into a bunch of patent changes, so perhaps we need to, as a team, consider some individual resource models.

As you say, and I REALLY agree, we have a LOT of 'dumb' xml, largely from being a hodgepodge of many modder's efforts. We need some unifying design concepts and determinations to proceed forward on. Hopefully next version we can make a big impact there.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So in the modern era, you're building huts. These huts provide the resource and do so for what amounts to next to nothing in production cost because they were designed for Prehistoric/Ancient era. At that point, you don't actually then need the upgrades at all

That would be true if the more modern buildings did not provide more money or hammers so that the AI will build them before the earlier ones go obsolete.

You make a great point about wild herbs. Although it's questionable whether we tend to use wild herbs or gardened or farmed ones in general and where.

Either Marjoram (or oregano) is still mostly sourced from wild plants. Same goes for many of the incense varieties.