Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Praetyre]

My deepest apologies, I was under the impression the system for when I last edited them (privately, IIRC) was still in place (Similar to the current, but simply adding names without further definition defaulted to the generic icon for of that type with their name displayed below the picture). I'll remove them later today when I have the time.

 

[Toffer90]

My deepest apologies, I was under the impression the system for when I last edited them (privately, IIRC) was still in place (Similar to the current, but simply adding names without further definition defaulted to the generic icon for of that type with their name displayed below the picture). I'll remove them later today when I have the time.

Completely understandable, the new system is not documented as far as I know, a trap that could catch anyone unaware.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It's not simple when we are speaking about around 100 new great persons who doesn't have an ART_DEF nor a TXT_KEY_X nor a TXT_KEY_X_PEDIA.; and that's why I suggested that he could add ART_DEF for the new great persons with an empty path <Path><\Path> as a quick fix (May not even work... I don't think the lack of TXT_KEY throws off an error, so we could have great persons without text in splash for v38, no biggie), or simply remove all the new great persons until after v38.

It's pretty simple... but it's a lot of work. A LOT of work.

My deepest apologies, I was under the impression the system for when I last edited them (privately, IIRC) was still in place (Similar to the current, but simply adding names without further definition defaulted to the generic icon for of that type with their name displayed below the picture). I'll remove them later today when I have the time.

I apologize as well because I didn't recall that things had taken on additional dimensions to that task. I should've remembered and warned of that.

 

[Raledon]

Confirmed. Thank you. I feared SM was broken with this bug, because this problem was always going to hit you when playing a game - and weakening your strongest units to the point of irrelevance before long.

Tell that to my 500 power, "invisible" (they are hiding behind a wall of promotions) mounted infantry. They were still relevant in the modern age (took over the opponent's tanks and armies with a stride).
Though it's nice that the next time they will get to drive tanks themselves while doing so.

 

[Praetyre]

I've set the Civ4UnitInfos.xml file to revert to 9825, but the SVN won't let me commit- it says nothing's been changed. Any idea how to fix this?

Also, who will be handling the graphics aspect? I can do some of the text but graphic manipulation is largely beyond my capabiliities (though I can pick out images).

 

[Toffer90]

I've set the Civ4UnitInfos.xml file to revert to 9825, but the SVN won't let me commit- it says nothing's been changed. Any idea how to fix this?

Dunno what's wrong, I reverted it for ya just now, so don't worry about it.

Also, who will be handling the graphics aspect? I can do some of the text but graphic manipulation is largely beyond my capabiliities (though I can pick out images).

I can help out with the images (when I have time), just pick em out for me and I'll adjust them for the game.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Tell that to my 500 power, "invisible" (they are hiding behind a wall of promotions) mounted infantry. They were still relevant in the modern age (took over the opponent's tanks and armies with a stride).
Though it's nice that the next time they will get to drive tanks themselves while doing so.

Prime example why SM Option and promotions are all OP. 500 MI is a game breaker for me.

But I'm treading on dangerous ground here.

 

[tmv]

Prime example why SM Option and promotions are all OP. 500 MI is a game breaker for me.

Blame the guy who insisted that the power increase had to be a multiplier instead of adding a few points. Some people don't get logarithms. OTOH this unit was probably promoted all the way to Divine, I cannot imagine reaching that power level otherwise. With experience lost with every quality upgrade, the number of XP earned by this unit must be insane. But I have to admit that the power balance of certain units is broken with SM, and this is especially true for the Imperial Guards. With these units being civic dependent, the power of the monarchy civic is completely different with SM or without. That is IMO the biggest drawback of the SM option right now, although it's not enough to stop me using it. Then again, the Imperial Guards unit line is a bit weird anyway, with the Tribal Guardian not being a part of it.

 

[Raledon]

OTOH this unit was probably promoted all the way to Divine, I cannot imagine reaching that power level otherwise. With experience lost with every quality upgrade, the number of XP earned by this unit must be insane

The unit had over 1300 xp (I think it's more like 1800 now), after the last quality up. I didn't check from there on...
The bigger issue that there are a bit too many +xp options, this causes stacked up units to still gain tons of experience. Take this into account with blitz, and after a certain point the unit killing capability is limited only by its movement.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The unit had over 1300 xp (I think it's more like 1800 now), after the last quality up. I didn't check from there on...
The bigger issue that there are a bit too many +xp options, this causes stacked up units to still gain tons of experience. Take this into account with blitz, and after a certain point the unit killing capability is limited only by its movement.

You have also selected every means possible to find this exploit. Not saying that's wrong but I haven't included a key counterbalance to this exploit yet in the combat mod system because I have been held up with other sides of the mod.

In the meantime, if you wish to avoid this kind of balance issue, perhaps turn on the option that requires more xp to level. Mind you, a good human player could find a key to undoing such a unit, I'm sure of it. Also, longer game speeds lead to more rounds to attack with and absorb up more XP. I haven't been able to achieve what you have and this is the first we've had reports of it. The huge amount of xp that those melee/mounted units can get was always intended to be counteracted by the fact that they are vulnerable to both anti-melee and anti-mounted promotionlines. But obviously that doesn't mean much when they are that powerful as a whole.

This is a good argument situation (which we've been waiting to see if we will get) for deepening the XP and possibly the countercombat class systems. I think it would be enough to correct the XP at least. But this will have unintended consequences elsewhere potentially. We'll see.

Again, if you really don't WANT to have this sort of exploit available then it's as simple as turning on the more XP option or utilizing the Dynamic XP bug option or both.

 

[Thunderbrd]

But I have to admit that the power balance of certain units is broken with SM, and this is especially true for the Imperial Guards. With these units being civic dependent, the power of the monarchy civic is completely different with SM or without. That is IMO the biggest drawback of the SM option right now, although it's not enough to stop me using it. Then again, the Imperial Guards unit line is a bit weird anyway, with the Tribal Guardian not being a part of it.

Bring up how this is the case for these units in particular in the SM thread please. Let's talk about that.

 

[Harrier]

Now that Permafrost has been re-added to the mod - the "Artic Combat" promo's need changing. They currently do not recognize Permafrost.

Either add Permafrost to "Artic Combat 3" - with Ice.

Or - make "Artic combat 3" - for Permafrost only and add a new promo (#4) for Ice.

EDIT

Just remembered, I am playing on an older SVN (9528) version. So this may have been fixed.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Prime example why SM Option and promotions are all OP. 500 MI is a game breaker for me.

I might have to solve for some overflows that come up as a result of high strength units in a late SM game but otherwise, all numbers of unit power are completely relative. It IS possible to counter what he did there but probably admittedly too tough for the AI to think of a way on purpose. There's a number of dynamics that still need to be developed to address this but like anything, you put it out there and see if loopholes can be found and exploited and how. You really have to work at it to get this kind of result and it should be a game goal in itself as difficult as it would be. Well.. not difficult as much as tedious.

Now that Permafrost has been re-added to the mod - the "Artic Combat" promo's need changing. They currently do not recognize Permafrost.

Either add Permafrost to "Artic Combat 3" - with Ice.

Or - make "Artic combat 3" - for Permafrost only and add a new promo (#4) for Ice.

I'm not sure if this sort of thing has been addressed or not yet. It's worth taking a look at. Maybe Raxxo can investigate this?

 

[Raledon]

I might have to solve for some overflows that come up as a result of high strength units in a late SM game but otherwise, all numbers of unit power are completely relative. It IS possible to counter what he did there but probably admittedly too tough for the AI to think of a way on purpose. There's a number of dynamics that still need to be developed to address this but like anything, you put it out there and see if loopholes can be found and exploited and how. You really have to work at it to get this kind of result and it should be a game goal in itself as difficult as it would be. Well.. not difficult as much as tedious.

Should I create a thread on this regard with the key options that help making this strategy (creating a super-unit) possible? It might help with detecting possible balance issues down the road.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Should I create a thread on this regard with the key options that help making this strategy (creating a super-unit) possible? It might help with detecting possible balance issues down the road.

Put a post on this in the SM thread and we can discuss some approaches to managing the 'bubble'.

 

[strategyonly]

getting these error messages??

[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_INDUSTRIAL' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_MODERN' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_INFORMATION' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_NANOTECH' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_TRANSHUMAN' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_GALACTIC' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_COSMIC' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_TRANSCENDENT' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml

 

[KaTiON_PT]

SVN 9843

After researching Industrialism most (all?) Town Halls disappear, meaning City Halls and Metropolitan Administrations get rendered ineffective, as well as other buildings dependent on them like Police Stations.

Worse is that even if I rebuild the town hall it finishes but doesn't actually get built.

See save file and go to the next turn.

 

[Thunderbrd]

getting these error messages??

[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_INDUSTRIAL' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_MODERN' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_INFORMATION' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_NANOTECH' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_TRANSHUMAN' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_GALACTIC' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_COSMIC' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml
[20298.625] info type 'BUILDING_KNOWLEDGE_BASE_TRANSCENDENT' not found, Current XML file is: modules\Custom_World_Views\Slavery\zDepend_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml

Corrected on the SVN now. Strange the file it gave in this when it was a problem with BuildingClassInfos.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Corrected on the SVN now. Strange the file it gave in this when it was a problem with BuildingClassInfos.

Not really a number of errors can't be identified until you have been through all of the files so what ever file is read last is the one that gets identified in the error message not the one that causes the problem.

edit actually it is the simplistic way the errors are identified that is the problem here. More sophisticated systems can better identify such things.

My guess is that in this case there is a list somewhere that is added to when a new object is found and then when the extra definition is found it is removed from the list. Then at the end anything on the list is an error. They only needed to keep an extra field showing the name of the first definition file along with the object to get the correct message.

Of course in vanilla BtS there is only one file so it is not necessary.

 

[Thunderbrd]

SVN 9843

After researching Industrialism most (all?) Town Halls disappear, meaning City Halls and Metropolitan Administrations get rendered ineffective, as well as other buildings dependent on them like Police Stations.

Worse is that even if I rebuild the town hall it finishes but doesn't actually get built.

See save file and go to the next turn.

@JosEPh_II : Can you try to identify/confirm exactly what's taking place here? This sounds like it could be a BIG part of why we get nations collapsing after the Industrial era and I'm a little confused as to what the problem is specifically. You're usually very good at disseminating these kinds of domino disconnections. Once we identify exactly what adjustment needs to be made, potentially to Town Halls if that's the issue, then we may be able to get games to stay a lot more balanced post industrial.

Not really a number of errors can't be identified until you have been through all of the files so what ever file is read last is the one that gets identified in the error message not the one that causes the problem.

edit actually it is the simplistic way the errors are identified that is the problem here. More sophisticated systems can better identify such things.

My guess is that in this case there is a list somewhere that is added to when a new object is found and then when the extra definition is found it is removed from the list. Then at the end anything on the list is an error. They only needed to keep an extra field showing the name of the first definition file along with the object to get the correct message.

Of course in vanilla BtS there is only one file so it is not necessary.

This is the side of programming that's way over my head. My interest is always focused on game effects and I really get frustrated when I get bogged down in the processing that takes place that players never see anything from. Thus this stuff has always been the realm of Alberts2 and AIAndy (and @n47 if we can keep her valuable input here . That's right n47... I'm telling you directly that I value your contributions!) We now have Raledon also getting involved in some of this kind of thing and I think he'll prove to be exceedingly valuable with this side of the coding. Maybe this is something he or Alberts2 can improve on some. I know I'm the last person who should be looking at ways to do that... I'd just make a mess. We've all got our strengths (and weaknesses.)