Single Player bugs and crashes v37 plus (SVN) - After the 24th of December 2016

[Thunderbrd]

Cricket field and minor league stadium has an abnormally high cost (2K instead of 700, like the other buildings from team sports).

Good spot. Thanks!

 

[JosEPh_II]

OK, I see the issue. Just committed a fix. TECH_MECHANIZED_WARFARE is about the point where Sheriffs and their Office should obsolete. Still, it's very strange you don't have a police station by Radio or Motorized Transportation. Seems an extreme beeline to avoid Criminology. But not as extreme as should be impossible so I've extended Sheriffs out a bit, even if it can be a player exploit.

Also, please, in the future distinguish between City Guards (the ones with gunpowder in use) and Guards (the ones that aren't that advanced) as they are two very distinct steps on the upgrade chain. I'm pretty sure that the Guards you are referring to are actually City Guards going by the icons.

I did not have the game up to Properly name them. I was going to say City Guards but just said Guards. A nitpick if you will. The Pic clearly shows who they are.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I did not have the game up to Properly name them. I was going to say City Guards but just said Guards. A nitpick if you will. The Pic clearly shows who they are.

Since they are different units, it's important we're not giving the impression that 2 generations have collapsed rather than one. I never did like calling them City Guards but that's what they were named. I'd love to find a better name, like Garrisoneers or something.

 

[Raledon]

Since they are different units, it's important we're not giving the impression that 2 generations have collapsed rather than one. I never did like calling them City Guards but that's what they were named. I'd love to find a better name, like Garrisoneers or something.

Looking at thesaurus, a few ideas (may not "hit the spot", but worth considering): Nightwatch; Sentry; Custodian.
A few more options: Marshal (if not used for great generals or such); peace/police officer; constable; bailiff.
Another option is to keep the city, but replace the guard. Town security, city police or something along these lines will reduce the overlap of the name.

 

[Toffer90]

Sentinel
Protector

 

[Thunderbrd]

There's some issue with the votes for Vienna. It claims the I have a whooping amount of -190M votes

Spoiler :

View attachment 484531

This save doesn't take me to a Vienna vote. The data storage shouldn't even be allowing a negative value since its an unsigned long long (and thus really shouldn't be overloading as well because even though it allows some overload, it converts overly large #s to max int before moving on.) So how it's getting to be goosed like this is really strange and without it being a save where the vote ALWAYS comes up at end turn, it takes far too long on the debug dll to get a vote to come up. Spent much of the day in the effort.

 

[Thunderbrd]

game will not go to the next unit again, just stalls on a unit, also, if promoted, unit wont promote and go go to next unit also . . .

Your save is hopelessly corrupt. It crashes on load after causing a math processing problem like I've never seen before. Seriously I'm getting a negative number where only a positive can even exist. Something is really strange with this and beyond my ability to solve. All I can think is that the save is somehow not compatible with current assets somehow.

 

[Thunderbrd]

SVN: 9805

Using an inquisitor awards gold depending on the population level of a city, but i'm getting 100k+ gold or more in cities larger than 20 pops, is this intended?

1. Download attached save file
2. Go to Yekaterinburg situated at the south-west of the main island
3. Select inquisitor and try to perform inquisition.

I'm intensely curious to see how an inquisition is processing the trade mission (which by your description is what's happening.) I didn't have time today to look into this and I won't tomorrow but I will.

Hello, I'm getting a repeatable CTD on my current game while processing the next turn.

I was playing with SVN 9728, but updating to latest DLL (SVN 9805) and recalculating didn't help. I know it's not the latest update, but the DLL hasn't been changed since then. (Both saves and latest minidump compressed and attached).

I play with custom BUG settings, but it seems to trigger with defaults too (SVN 9805 settings). I'm touching some things with WB, maybe it's related with that.

Some other issues I've found on both saves:

- I built Nazca Lines world wonder in Kyoto. All era benefits are lost when I do a recalculation.
- Recalculation gives some weird results: I lost ~3000 gold per turn, though I gained 50% defense on all my cities. I know there may be many changes in about 80 SVN revisions, but so many? Is this normal/intentional?
- Incans have too many doctor units. Look at Vitcos and Arequipa, around 100 Apothecary/MedicineMan/Shepherd on both cities! Mayans are suffering from that too (in Lakamha).
- I can build the Jade Death Mask Carver on all my cities. I think this should be a World Wonder, it's like Fake Gems and other similar wonders.
- Some GameFont icons (diplomacy smiles, properties, and some more) look ugly, like zoomed, on latest update.
- I have Lead on Yokohama's city vicinity, but I can't build the Lead Mine building. Maybe it's because the resource is on a Peak...?

Interested in trying to figure out most of these bugs but I'm working primarily on the crash. I DID find the source of this problem, which is a bad gamestate that keeps cropping up for some reason - a major bugbear for me lately. I used this crash, however, as a detect and correct spot for that problem since it would be a common place for the code to initially run across the issue. The problem I have now is that the game is so advanced in that it takes hours for the turn to process to the crash point so although I believe I've 'fixed' it, it's going to take some more hours to confirm and compile and commit to the SVN. I will be out of commission tomorrow due to a memorial service so sometime early in the week I should be able to finalize this and get the fix on the SVN for you.

 

[Raledon]

This save doesn't take me to a Vienna vote. The data storage shouldn't even be allowing a negative value since its an unsigned long long (and thus really shouldn't be overloading as well because even though it allows some overload, it converts overly large #s to max int before moving on.) So how it's getting to be goosed like this is really strange and without it being a save where the vote ALWAYS comes up at end turn, it takes far too long on the debug dll to get a vote to come up. Spent much of the day in the effort.

Yeah, I managed to fudge up, twice. Accidently uploaded the wrong save, and managed to accidentally get it (the correct one) deleted. I'll reupload/post the issue if I manage to encounter it again

 

[JosEPh_II]

In most cases unfortunately, to change a unit or building's name has created Save Game Breaking incompatibilities in the past.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

This is possible through buildings that spread autobuildings (usually called effect buildings) and the prereq restraints you place on them.

Which reminds me I have an Effect building with no requirements given free by a Pseudo National Wonder that replaces a building that has requirements. The Effect building is showing up in all cities except those that don't have the requirements for the building being replaced. This is a problem.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Which reminds me I have an Effect building with no requirements given free by a Pseudo National Wonder that replaces a building that has requirements. The Effect building is showing up in all cities except those that don't have the requirements for the building being replaced. This is a problem.

How do you define a 'psuedo' national wonder? Requiring the Palace or something? (In such a case it should still be an actual national wonder just to put it in the right pedia category.)

Why should it show up where the cities don't have the requirements? Oh... you're saying it's taking the requirements of the building being replaced as an issue... interesting behavior. You could get around that by having a second effect building that would go into the rest of the locations and make the building you're normally trying to replace be the building that would replace that second effect building, thus then if that building is there to replace the effect2 building then it would thus get replaced by the effect1 building.

I was not aware that replacements auto-require the prereqs of the previous buildings, at least when being autoassigned. I wonder if that might be causing problems in other ways.

When I work on the new building prerequisite tag design, I'm sure I can easily get this cleared up more satisfactorily.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

How do you define a 'psuedo' national wonder? Requiring the Palace or something? (In such a case it should still be an actual national wonder just to put it in the right pedia category.)

A Pseudo National Wonder is one that can't be built in a city which has the building it gives for free.

They don't count as National Wonders for the city limit. Mostly because there are two per animal, so more than 1,000 of them before you start on things line Natural Wonders and stuff.

Why should it show up where the cities don't have the requirements? Oh... you're saying it's taking the requirements of the building being replaced as an issue... interesting behavior. You could get around that by having a second effect building that would go into the rest of the locations and make the building you're normally trying to replace be the building that would replace that second effect building, thus then if that building is there to replace the effect2 building then it would thus get replaced by the effect1 building.

I was not aware that replacements auto-require the prereqs of the previous buildings, at least when being autoassigned. I wonder if that might be causing problems in other ways.

When I work on the new building prerequisite tag design, I'm sure I can easily get this cleared up more satisfactorily.

None of these are auto buildings they are Free Buildings. Free Buildings can and do only get built based on their requirements usually.

I have just noticed that Story(Free) are not being built some small cities. I need to investigate further as I just discovered that in one I can build the Story building so it is not necessarily the replacement requirement it is missing

 

[Thunderbrd]

They don't count as National Wonders for the city limit. Mostly because there are two per animal, so more than 1,000 of them before you start on things line Natural Wonders and stuff.

Would it be helpful to add a tag that states that this building, although limited, doesn't count towards the wonder limit? Would that allow this approach to be converted over so that it's not so complex and memory hogging in-game?

None of these are auto buildings they are Free Buildings. Free Buildings can and do only get built based on their requirements usually.

Can you clarify the difference?

I have just noticed that Story(Free) are not being built some small cities. I need to investigate further as I just discovered that in one I can build the Story building so it is not necessarily the replacement requirement it is missing

Yeah, ok, that confused me. Sorry.

 

[Toffer90]

How do you define a 'psuedo' national wonder? Requiring the Palace or something? (In such a case it should still be an actual national wonder just to put it in the right pedia category.)

It should imo not be listed under national wonders in the pedia because it doesn't consume a national wonder slot in the city it is in.

 

[Thunderbrd]

It should imo not be listed under national wonders in the pedia because it doesn't consume a national wonder slot in the city it is in.

hmm... what's more core to the definition of a National Wonder? That there is a limit to how many you can build as a player but not globally? Or that it takes up a limit slot? For many games played, slots aren't even a factor. But the limit to the building continues to be.

The more I'm thinking on this, we REALLY need a tag that says doesn't count towards the great or national wonder slot limit if limited wonders is in use. Those culture wonders shouldn't count against the city limit either. And the method of distributing effect buildings should really be as minimized as possible because it has a lot of good reasons to use it but there's also a lot of good reasons (processing time and memory) not to if it can be avoided. I see more coming so as to help determine where 'global' boundaries actually are if not EVERY city. With multiple planets being colonized, this is going to be more and more a needed method and more and more we should try to make it easier NOT to use them unless absolutely necessary.

But if a building can only be built once in a nation, that, to me, is what a National Wonder actually is. A special ability of a National Wonder to avoid counting towards the limit is perfectly acceptable past that.

 

[Toffer90]

But if a building can only be built once in a nation, that, to me, is what a National Wonder actually is. A special ability of a National Wonder to avoid counting towards the limit is perfectly acceptable past that.

That's one way to see it, but the effect of these pseudo wonders are usually comparable to regular buildings, "National Concept" is a good name for them as they are conceptual in nature and are usually not impressive enough to be called a wonder.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That's one way to see it, but the effect of these pseudo wonders are usually comparable to regular buildings, "National Concept" is a good name for them as they are conceptual in nature and are usually not impressive enough to be called a wonder.

1) Not all wonders are equal. This is true for great wonders and national wonders alike.
2) National Wonder base pricing has been reduced to a mere x2 base. They don't distract that much from a normal build queue now.
3) And maybe some other national wonders should reduce a little in impact.

 

[Toffer90]

You may disagree, but I think they are distinct enough to warrant a new pedia category called National Concepts.

 

[Thunderbrd]

You may disagree, but I think they are distinct enough to warrant a new pedia category called National Concepts.

So the general rule would be that they are buildings that have a national limit but also use a tag that says they don't count towards the local limit of national wonders and if they have a build cost at all, which many don't because they are often created by units, that build cost would be at the cost of a normal building. Would be an acceptable new category I guess.

Are there really that many that it warrants a whole category?

Personally, I've never been too happy with animals since this pseudo national wonder factor was implemented on them. I used to enjoy trying to collect as many of as wide a variety as possible to dump them into the next city. I suppose now it's less about collecting them and more about just trying to use them and with that being the case, it sucks they can't be butchered anymore. I've never understood why some players are thinking the research you get out of studying them is so out of balance but it seems it must be a problem on really super long gamespeeds because 3-6 research per animal on Marathon doesn't really seem to make much of a difference and largely that's all that's worth doing with most animals after you get your one myth out of them. Used to be nice trying to make sure all your cities were given those myths thanks to future subduals.

Outside of that application, which I do understand the reasoning behind making them psuedo national wonders because they really can't count against the limit (though why we bother to have a limit is still beyond me - big fan of unlimited wonders - I also understand this doesn't work for all players) with how many types of them there are, are there many other pseudo national wonders in use?

I definitely think that effect buildings and other autobuilds should be in their own pedia categories and that we should strive to make the normal building list in the pedia purely constructable buildings.