1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crashes' started by Dancing Hoskuld, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    So that is why there are so few animals around in my game. I assume Raxo is basing his "too many animals" on his mod where he removed all the area restrictions on animals.
     
    KaTiON_PT likes this.
  2. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,086
    Location:
    Portugal
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    26,932
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    wow... yeah that would do it.
     
  4. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    7,038
    Location:
    Poland
    I'll revert this change then.
    AI is lazier on Noble than I thought it would be.

    That might be, I'll change this spawn info on my side, so they are longitude restricted.
    Earth spans map east west.
    Sadly latitude can't be scaled beyond +-90.

    Kation map is 200 tiles high.
    Earth is 55 tiles high.

    Lower side of Earth would be -90, and upper - +90.
    That is 180 span on 55 tiles.
    Top of map would have latitude of 565.

    I'll try Emperor - 3 levels above Noble.
    AI builds 32% faster and researches 18% faster than player on this handicap.

    Emperor AI expands in similar rate as me (AI autorun test, ignore Greece as it was civ I selected to play with).
    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2018-08-22 11-02-04-81.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
    KaTiON_PT likes this.
  5. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,943
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    The spawn rate might depend on the game settings as well and i'am not sure at the moment if the spawn rate scales with things like gamespeeds or not. If that could explain some of the different views about the rates it is something that could be improved in the future.

    I only started to complain about this because it definitely increased the turn times in the early game. Later i noticed problems with the AI hunters not being able to return in owned land through all the animals and the settlers not moving to where the AI wanted to found cities.
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    My understanding of spawns is that it is modified on the area available and the existing number of of that type of animal already in that area.

    It scales to map size because the latitude and longitude are based on the map size which represents all of the Earth. Scenarios that change where they want the map to be on Earth or its orientation need to convert between what they are representing and what BtS provides.
     
  7. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    7,038
    Location:
    Poland
    Well cant use numbers smaller than -90 or larger than 90 for latitudes or +-180 for longitudes.

    Those numbers get clamped to those values if they get out of range.
    That is space scenarios aren't supported by longitude/latitude system.

    On Emperor AI steals all WWs in prehistoric era :p
    I don't beeline, but I build city after city.

    On Noble I was outpacing AI almost from start.
    Capital barely has things to build, so I can quickly pump out group of 5 gatherers, settler and education/crime/disease property control unit.

    I specialized my traits and civics towards :hammers:
    Also cities are set to emphasis on :hammers:
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  8. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    20,538
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MN
    animals spawning on my map (strategyonly) are very very sparse . . and not many of anything are there except cattle , dogs and some bears ..
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  9. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,943
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    I think I found something that could explain the different rates the spawn rate is modified by the iTrainPercent from the Gamespeed.

    This means the chance for a spawn to happen on Eternity is 10 times lower as it is on Normal, i don't think this can be right??
     
  10. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    6,490
    Location:
    Norway
    It makes sense that there are less spawns on slower gamespeeds, but the impact strength of gamespeed could probably be half, or maybe even a 1/3, of what it currently is.
    One way to go about it could be something like this:
    modified by iTrainPercent → changed to → modified by 666 + iTrainPercent / 3
    or modified by 500 + iTrainPercent / 2​
    Raising the floor, but keeping the roof where it was, so to speak.

    It should be noted that I like the animal spawn balance on eternity gamespeed so this example may not be what we as a team want, the effect is currently from
    100 →1000 ▬ ▬ My suggestion would change the range to ▬ ▬ 666 or 500 → 1000

    The floor could be different if that is what the team wants. like 300 + iTrainPercent / 3 or 2
    Which would be a range from 300 → 633 or 800 ▬ It would imo represent the moderate course of action.

    We all agree that Spawn rates are crazy high on normal gamespeed which is why I'm suggesting we raise the floor instead of lowering the roof when applying the dampening effect to the gamespeed factor.

    Back to my initial statement; if there are equal amount of spawns per turn in a normal game as in an eternity game then the eternity game would subdue far more animals throughout the prehistoric than what would be the case in a normal gamespeed game, upsetting game-balance and -experience between the speeds quite a bit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  11. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Of course latitude and longitude are bounded. That is what happens on a sphere. Not only that in BtS
    • 180 East is always the right hand edge of the mini map
    • 180 west is always the left hand edge
    • 90 North the top
    • 90 South the bottom
    What you have to do is translate where you have the map into theses set of coordinates. It is a simple maths translation. If you whole map is Europe then you need to make 10 degrees West match to BtS's 180 degrees West and 40 degeres east match to BtS's 180 degrees East. 90 North can stay but you may want 90 South to represent 45 North. You do these changes in the spawn XML dropping any spawns that are outside your map region.
     
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    7,038
    Location:
    Poland
    Does it work in opposite way?

    Map is 200 tiles high, while Earth is 55 tiles high.
    Bottom of map is south pole, so it is -90 latitude
    North pole would be somewhere at -40.

    This means -90 to +90 (180) should be scaled into -90 to -40 (50) in spawn info for this one space map. This means goodbye to absolute latitude tag.

    Some script to rescale all latitude tags would be useful.
     
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,485
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    No it doesn't. The map is always 180 degrees on the edges and 90 on the top/bottom. You have no say in that at all. It is part of BtS.

    You just need to adjust your spawns to match.
     
    KaTiON_PT likes this.
  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    26,932
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I don't think spawn rates should vary that much between gamespeeds tbh. Healing and movement rates don't so it really makes for crazy differences between the speeds. The rewards are modified already, to some extent. I'm not saying there shouldn't be a variation, just not a strong one. Right now, long games hardly ever see animals and short ones are swarmed by them (and crashing sometimes as a result.)
     
  15. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2006
    Messages:
    20,538
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    MN
    that is definitely what is happening . ..
     
  16. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    7,038
    Location:
    Poland
    This is what I meant - adjusting latitude restrictions in between -90 and -40, as Earth is technically in between those latitudes on map.

    This map had downscaled latitudes:
    It starts at -60 and ends at +60
    Earth ends at -26.

    That is 34 unique numbers would be used for latitude restrictions.
    This means very rough latitude zones, as 5 - 6 old values old values would be represented by 1 new one.

    Old minimum latitude of -90 would be -60 for this map and old maximum of 90 would be -26 for this map (iMinLatitude, iMaxLatitude).

    Spoiler :

    Civ4BeyondSword 2018-08-23 09-31-23-41.jpg Civ4BeyondSword 2018-08-23 09-30-22-13.jpg


    There is few hundred of MinLatitude, MaxLatitude and several tens of bLatitude tags.

    If I set Kation's map latitude limits to
    top latitude=90
    bottom latitude=-90

    then Earth would begin at -90 and end at -40.
    That is 180 unique values would be 50 unique values.
    That is 3 - 4 old numbers would be represented by 1 new number.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  17. Fermongu

    Fermongu Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2017
    Messages:
    183
    Gender:
    Male
    A custom spawn file can be done taking into account different latitude limits for earth on space map.

    I did with GEM map, where basically situation is reversed, latitude is ok but longitude values are altered from standard maps (longitude 0 is not on greenwich). It's just tedious editing values indivudually for every animal.
     
  18. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,086
    Location:
    Portugal
    Good idea, that would make both sides happy about the animal spawn rate.

    I first have to find out what's the conversion ratio that needs to be in the modified file for that specific space map.
     
  19. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2011
    Messages:
    6,490
    Location:
    Norway
    An alternative would be to scale the chance to subdue animals by gamespeed, though that's not all that easy to accomplish as far as I understand.
    That would allow us to have the exact same spawn rate for all gamespeeds, without it upsetting gamespeed balance much.
     
  20. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    7,038
    Location:
    Poland
    To support space map it would have to count tiles having Earth map category and compare that with total map area.

    After I reenabled longitude limitations spawn rate are now at sane values.
     

Share This Page