Noriad2
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,153
Won't that put the AI over the free unit limit on Nightmare? Or any time soon thereafter, given that the AI will have to build other units, too?
Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
Won't that put the AI over the free unit limit on Nightmare? Or any time soon thereafter, given that the AI will have to build other units, too?
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
They should not "have to" build other units for a bit. This should allow them to build their initial city needed buildings instead of more units, should is the crucial word here. Nothing is guaranteed of course.
Minor bug: there are no spaces in property tooltip section on hover.
Tundra and taiga graphics still are flipped with each other.
Tundra is where unit stands and taiga is up north.
I'm on southern hemisphere.
Spoiler :
Tundra and taiga graphics still are flipped with each other.
Spoiler :
Tundra is where unit stands and taiga is up north.
I'm on southern hemisphere.
Last edited:
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
1st screenshot #98 My Capitol After adding back the removed Palace properties. You will notice that I had to have 16 total Bard and Story tellers to keep Education from going negative per turn. I also Had to have 10 LE to keep Crime under control. I had to have that many before I added back the missing properties. Now add up the cost for all these 3 Property control units. It has also put us right back into the place we were before when StrayegyOnly and other players were comnplaining about having cities filled with nothing but Healers and LE. And now Story Teller line units as well. This is Not a step forward but a step back. In fact a rather Large step back.
2nd screen shot #99 is one of my younger cities that shows the struggle to keep Education, Crime, Disease, and Happiness levels in the "good". This is typical for all cities it's size and smaller in this Early Classical time frame.
Showing screen shots from pre tribalism does not give a clear picture of what you will be facing 2 Eras later. Nor does a simplified Deity/Duel map scenario Raxo. Where is your AI Pressure and Presence in a set up like that? There is none. So the test is too simplified and therefore flawed. As was Toffer's simplified test and subsequent screen shot for the extrapolation of math to give support for his action all from a weak statistical basis for it. You can not balance the game in this simplified manner. A matrix algebra table is needed not a straight math formula. (not enough space to detail. And my terminology from my matrix algebra usage years ago is diminished, but the concepts are still there).
Screen shots of 2 of Alexander's 3 cities (screen shot 100 and 101). Both are Shrinking! Look at the units in the cities. No Story Tellers, No healers and only 1 LE. Alexander has already started the death Spiral. Sparta was a 32 pop city but is now only 15. Corinth was a 29 pop city and is now only 23. Also note the # of cities all AI have compared to my Empire. This is a direct result of Lowering the itargetcities numbers for all maps sizes back to vanilla btS levels. I had them higher and it allowed the AI to expand more. Balance is not just one set formula, ever.
2nd screen shot #99 is one of my younger cities that shows the struggle to keep Education, Crime, Disease, and Happiness levels in the "good". This is typical for all cities it's size and smaller in this Early Classical time frame.
Showing screen shots from pre tribalism does not give a clear picture of what you will be facing 2 Eras later. Nor does a simplified Deity/Duel map scenario Raxo. Where is your AI Pressure and Presence in a set up like that? There is none. So the test is too simplified and therefore flawed. As was Toffer's simplified test and subsequent screen shot for the extrapolation of math to give support for his action all from a weak statistical basis for it. You can not balance the game in this simplified manner. A matrix algebra table is needed not a straight math formula. (not enough space to detail. And my terminology from my matrix algebra usage years ago is diminished, but the concepts are still there).
Screen shots of 2 of Alexander's 3 cities (screen shot 100 and 101). Both are Shrinking! Look at the units in the cities. No Story Tellers, No healers and only 1 LE. Alexander has already started the death Spiral. Sparta was a 32 pop city but is now only 15. Corinth was a 29 pop city and is now only 23. Also note the # of cities all AI have compared to my Empire. This is a direct result of Lowering the itargetcities numbers for all maps sizes back to vanilla btS levels. I had them higher and it allowed the AI to expand more. Balance is not just one set formula, ever.
Attachments
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Are you operating on an older DLL still as you earlier said you were? I did a major fix recently to the AI's ability to react to property control with units. They should no longer be failing to react and allowing themselves to just rot in property problems.
Man that's way too many storytellers you have to maintain. What changed to make education so much more pressing?
Still proves to me that the palace is too early in the tech tree to handle ancient era crime and education problems, it is also only one city so it won't matter one bit for other cities.
The education change I made to the palace equals 1/3 story teller with the first education promotion.
You would need three palaces in one city for the palace to equal one story teller with the first education promotion.
So the change I made there have practically no impact whatsoever; it is not a super large shift in balance as you seem to claim.
-20 crime on the palace equals about 3 enforcers, I think we should rather increase the anti-crime effect on some of the ancient era buildings than eliminate crime from the prehistoric with the palace anti-crime effect.
Same with education, a lot of ancient and classical buildings should get an education boost.
Thanks KaTION_PT for the explanation but until a few weeks ago, when I built a Great Prophet I found that I could immediately build any religion even if no one else had founded it yet.
I am now thinking that these times, I might have built the Shwedagon Paya wonder and that is why I was able to found any of the religions in the game.
Or you had the "pick religion" gameoption ON which basically removes the tech restriction from founding religions.
He just should do two EXACT playtroughs, one with palace boost and other without palace boost.
I was testing Eternity/Nightmare/Standard.
Capital always is in best shape, when it comes to properties, as it has most time to develop property control infrastructure.
Also I agree with Toffer that property control buildings should have their strength increased.
By the way I find research rate 2x too fast for Eternity @Toffer90
This may be result of no AIs and barbarians interfering though.
Palace influence on properties would be normally drowned long ago by other things on Sedentary Lifestyle.
Also something wrong is with AI, if really they play better with education and anticrime on palace.
This may be result of losing single
in beginning of game, when you have 2 or 3 of .Either Common Cold (25 disease) or first negative education (-10 education) level will make city lose one
I'm playing with single tile option and all combat mods.
I was playing without AIs to maximize game speed - I wanted to test hunting stuff and property control on my own capital.
Last edited:
@Thunderbrd I found very serious bug with maintenance cost when splitting units.
Maintenance isn't constant but increase when splitting units.
Maintenance isn't constant but increase when splitting units.
Spoiler :
This is include no-settler issue?
I don't understand your question, the AI should do economically fine with two cities in the very early prehistoric era now.
Working as intended
When you merge three units then the merged one will cost the same upkeep as two of the three units it was merged from.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Game was started with SVN 10015 and updated thru 10029.
Before I reached Classical Lifestyle at one point my citizens were generating +44 Ed, but the decay was -111. And with every Ed giving building possible to build built I still had to use this many Story T's to get a +Ed/turn to climb out of the -ED balance. I have since turned it around but it will go - in a heartbeat with out constant attention.
I'm not sure if Toffer's new property settings using a constant divided by -3 giving -1/3rds is generating too much bad ED. I'm thinking that he's forgotten about the Civ IV BtS engine rounding Down. Example, so if the number generated is -4 1/3 it is being rounded down to -5 not -4. Same as his -4 2/3rd number going to -5. I never liked it when it was divided by -2 either for the same reason. But there is more to it than that.
Your 1st negative Education building with Malus hits at -10 Ed level. The next hits at -25 Ed level. Not much separation and they compound. Extremely easy to go -25 in just a turn or 2 in the early game for a new city. Then it's a constant and rather all consuming battle at that. If out side pressure dictates you have to concentrate in other build directions the -Ed will soon be in the -hundreds. And you Can run out of positive Ed byuildings to build as well. My Capital has fought back from a -623 Ed level to where it is now, a +200 level.
And the maintenance costs for the units Plus the cost per turn in going from a Story teller to Bard adds up very fast as well. Getting my Treasury up and above 1000
at 75% research slider is also quite the task. As Deity probably should be.EDIT: Here is Settler's Education
Code:
<PropertySource>
<PropertySourceType>PROPERTYSOURCE_CONSTANT</PropertySourceType>
<PropertyType>PROPERTY_EDUCATION</PropertyType>
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
<RelationType>RELATION_ASSOCIATED</RelationType>
<iAmountPerTurn>
<Div>
<Mult>
<AttributeType>ATTRIBUTE_POPULATION</AttributeType>
<Constant>4</Constant>
</Mult>
<Constant>-3</Constant>
</Div>
</iAmountPerTurn>
</PropertySource>Why not just make it -2, as that is what the BtS engine will do to this formula. Always rounds down.
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
The AI is using the Noble setting for that.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I had to 
when I saw the Grammaticus building change. Yes it's a definite ED boost! But you didn't post that now it takes a size 8 city to build it, or that is now double cost to build as well. Are you "throwing spaghetti at the wall" here?! 
when I saw the Grammaticus building change. Yes it's a definite ED boost! But you didn't post that now it takes a size 8 city to build it, or that is now double cost to build as well. Are you "throwing spaghetti at the wall" here?! Thought I should post another education status update from my deity test game.
I haven't once felt I struggled with crime and education.
The OroNao watcher is a cultural variant of the Town Watchmen; they have the same base anti-crime capabilities.
I haven't once felt I struggled with crime and education.
The OroNao watcher is a cultural variant of the Town Watchmen; they have the same base anti-crime capabilities.
Attachments
Last edited:
It felt appropriate, education should cost a bit upkeep... No city with less than 8 population really need it even on deity... perhaps on nightmare? That should be part of the challenge in nightmare then.I had to
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
What SVN version did yuo start this game on? And doesn't your UI modmod add things to the game as well? Like modified GlobalDefines? Also to see your screenshot I have click to enlarge and then it runs off the screen. And it makes reading it a bit hard. The lay out takes a bit of looking at to figure out too. Just sayin'. Not used to it.
How many Wonders have you managed to build in your capitol? That can make a big difference as well.
Also do you have any neighbors in this game that present a threat to your empire? Or is this an "empty set" test game. You are lacking in details about your set up. And your City screen does not tell who else is in the game. If you are out and about with nothing but animals and barbs then it's much much easier to keep the Education levels Positive. But let that Education level dip into the negative because of outside pressures and it will be a different ball game. You're kind of pulling a "fast one" I feel here. Perhaps manipulating the data by only showing a "glimpse" of the whole. maybe not? But then again....
How many Wonders have you managed to build in your capitol? That can make a big difference as well.
Also do you have any neighbors in this game that present a threat to your empire? Or is this an "empty set" test game. You are lacking in details about your set up. And your City screen does not tell who else is in the game. If you are out and about with nothing but animals and barbs then it's much much easier to keep the Education levels Positive. But let that Education level dip into the negative because of outside pressures and it will be a different ball game. You're kind of pulling a "fast one" I feel here. Perhaps manipulating the data by only showing a "glimpse" of the whole. maybe not? But then again....
Similar threads
- Sticky
- Sticky
