Can two AIs trade with Tamed Aminals and then use them to place resources?
For example AI1 gets Tamed Horse from AI2, and then AI1 uses Tamed Horse to place it somewhere in vicinity of more productive city.
Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
- Start date
For example AI1 gets Tamed Horse from AI2, and then AI1 uses Tamed Horse to place it somewhere in vicinity of more productive city.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
More importantly, WILL they? Is there motivation programmed into them to do this? Can they see the animals as providing resource access or do they only see them as units that boil down to a monetary trade value? I simply don't know enough about the trading AI in this unit trade mod to say either way which is why I'm asking. I suspect they don't have this capacity to seek access to resources through trade of units as the means and thus this becomes a major player exploit.
Yeah, also what if other nation is neighboring you.
You should be able to trade with AI if your and AIs city are like 3 tiles from each other and that Horse resource is at AI side.
That is Tile with your city - two tiles within your borders - third tile with Horse being in AI border - Tile with AI city.
I don't trust trading/resource management capabilities of AI - it doesn't want to build NASA despite its simple requirements.
I think DH is better at Python than AI at getting resource placing units from other AIs.
It also has problems with getting things like Hunting Instructions.
AI knows only two reliable ways of getting resource into its vicinity from other AIs - war or founding city close to it.
I'm not sure about second option.
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I don't think you can trade units unless there is an established trade route access between those nations trading, so ... there's that.
He was talking about this:
1. already the case and no. The problem is that you should not be able to ever trade them between nations. However that bit is done in the exe and until this project happens there is nothing we can do about it.
That is he wanted to lock certain resources from trading between nations altogether and use only units for trading resources (getting tamed animals and then placing resource at its own cities), but that project depends on other project, that seem to have stalled forever (link ^).
Unit based trade of resources between AIs is not factor most likely and instead AI gets horses and other animals trough subdued animals where possible, if they aren't present within borders.
Even if one AI buys tamed animal from other AI then may not end up placing animal resource in vicinity.
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makotech222
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
- Messages
- 240
Interesting. The only thing i changed was adding a vs2017 sln file, i think. Maybe a few #include changes as well. Are you using VS2017?
Edit:
This was my svn commit message; has the install guide i used:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Hell no and I really hate upgrading so didn't want to have to. That this is a requirement is a temporary annoyance but I get that some may feel there's a benefit to this - I wouldn't know what it is until I get used to the new program I guess. I'm in the process of following the guide on your link as I found that earlier today when I buckled down and started trying to figure out what I'd need to do here. I hope not having Windows 10 is not a problem. It's a HUGE amount of memory this is eating into and it's a very vague guide (which is why I HATE upgrading!) that leaves a LOT of questions unanswered. VS is currently 'preparing for it's first use'. Says it will take a few minutes and it's been nearly an hour already. I pray I can get this to function.
I'm about to upgrade computers so I might be stuck until I do. One thing I can say already is that the makefile paths is going to have to become unversioned again because I still have an original install of BtS, not the steam path you show.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
What is already what case?
I'm sure we don't need to change the diplo screen to make it possible in the dll to bar particular resources from being tradeable. A new tag on Bonus infos should make that possible to designate untradeable resources.
I've explained why I really dislike the idea of making animal resources untradeable through the normal resource trade method. The AI is just not advanced enough for this I don't think. So I would implore a rethinking of this approach for international animal trade.
And yes, not having all animals covered with animal units that can spread herds or vicinity access to other cities is the chief problem with this approach domestically. If we want to do this, I'm cool with it for domestic access requirements. Good idea. But it MUST be a top priority to complete this project and get it out of limbo status because its one of the most glaring imperfections in the mod right now and would be super appreciated by any and all players of the mod to get this sorted out. Definitely a version capper here!
That's possible but more easily resolved in the AI. By placing the animal as a resource, as in on a plot, are we talking about doing away with herds as vicinity providing buildings then? It seemed to me the herd buildings were good ways to address this spreading and providing vicinity access. I found that easily envisioned as a part of the city infrastructure.
@Dancing Hoskuld meant that trading some raw resources already have limited impact, and sometimes just confuses people.
I guess he didn't knew that it is already possible in DLL.
Though he didn't realize, that this scenario may get weird fast:
Tile with your city - two tiles within your borders - third tile with Horse being in AI border - Tile with AI city. Can't trade horse.
Tile with your city - five tiles within your borders - sixth tile is within borders, but isn't in vicinity (stuck on island or something). Technically exists in empire, needs National Importer to actually use it.
That is in first case you can't get it at all, and in second case is farther away but can't utilize it in chain, unless there is something like national importer for it.
Yeah, I agree, that hes too optimistic as for AI resource management.
Caveman2Cosmos\Assets\Python\EntryPoints\CvRandomEventInterface.py needs definitions for some animals. (## Start Spread Resources mod python ##)
Also mission outcomes must be added to units, that could place animal resource.
After cleaning other structural issues in mod this one is now most serious in early eras.
Still we don't know what is wrong with early religions though.
He can always revert or change costs.
I meant Tamed Animals as vicinity version of Animal Herd from subdued animals.
Herd in city acts as vicinity source of bonus.
I don't think that AI can buy Tamed Animal to place animal resource.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Yeah I think that's an oversight. They won't think... I need horses so I must trade for a unit that can provide them. They will think, horse unit is worth this much gold so perhaps it would be worth what I'm selling off here. So they MIGHT get one from a trade but not intentionally to fulfill the purpose of getting resource access. Once they have one, the horse unit (subdued or tamed) IS likely to plant itself as a herd in a city, or as a myth due to the priorities established on that unit's AI type. I'm not sure if there is really sufficient AI for the training of such units for the purpose of spreading herds but something does inspire them to train them now and then so there must be some step that considers them valuable for training at times. It's just the trading part that I'm a bit dubious of. I really flatout dislike and always have the mod that trades units in the diplo screen. I don't feel it was ever designed well in the AI and a lot of bug reports have come up about illogical trades there and I couldn't be bothered to work on it because it's too big a can of worms to refine to anything truly effective. I'd honestly prefer its removal entirely tbh, because I don't see it ever doing anything but causing problems for the AI performance. But I know many players like it so it will stay. Just an opinion.
An opinion that we share.
The bonus placement code within smartmap is quite rudimentary, There was no reason why sulphur wasn't placed on the map other than there not being enough space for it.
The smartmap code ignores all the xml tags for bonuses that define how many of it should be placed based on different factors, and instead just treats all resources equally for the most part.
It did have a list of some of the water resources and a rule that said that these bonuses should be placed exactly this much more than others. (Reasoning stated in a comment: Because there is so much water and so few water bonuses)
It had two more lists like that, but sulphur was not listed in any of them.
I added sulphur to one of the lists so that it is now treated equally to ('BONUS_STONE', 'BONUS_MARBLE', 'BONUS_COPPER', 'BONUS_HORSE').
It should make the sulphur count on map increase with a fixed amount from what it currently is.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Followed this to the letter so I'm sure I now have a ton of duplicated files floating about. I also made some local changes to the makefile:
Code:
TOOLKIT=C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003
COMPILER_TOOLKIT=$(TOOLKIT)
SUB_DLL_COMPILER_TOOLKIT=C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual C++ Toolkit 2003
PSDK=C:\Program Files\Microsoft Platform SDK
CIVINSTALL=C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword
GLOBALBOOST=$(CIVINSTALL)\CvGameCoreDLL\Boost-1.32.0
GLOBALPYTHON=$(CIVINSTALL)\CvGameCoreDLL\Python24
TORTOISE="C:\Program files\TortoiseSVN"
## Uncomment to have newly compiled dlls copied to your mod's Assets directory
#YOURMOD=C:\Program Files (x86)\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos\
Code:
1>------ Build started: Project: C2C, Configuration: Final_Release Win32 ------
1>C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio\2017\Community\Common7\IDE\VC\VCTargets\Microsoft.MakeFile.Targets(44,5): error MSB3073: The command "nmake Final_Release" exited with code -1073741701.
1>Done building project "C2C(VS2017).vcxproj" -- FAILED.
========== Build: 0 succeeded, 1 failed, 0 up-to-date, 0 skipped ==========
Septimius
Warlord
Hi guys, I've started a new nightmare deity game with the latest SVN and a clean install.
I've run into an odd bug, where my research is reduced to 0 after my first encounter with a foreign power. I've run the game one more turn to see if it went away, but research is still 0.
The financial advisor shows I've got 12 commerce and science at 100%, but research is 0.
Savegame included.
I've run into an odd bug, where my research is reduced to 0 after my first encounter with a foreign power. I've run the game one more turn to see if it went away, but research is still 0.
The financial advisor shows I've got 12 commerce and science at 100%, but research is 0.
Savegame included.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
I guess someone messed up with events.
Sounds like random save corruption.
Try the 2010.sln not the 2017.sln.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Interesting. That worked but it did it with VS 2008. Can I trust this build?
Septimius
Warlord
Yep, I verified the civ IV files in Steam and got one error. Apparently that was enough to bork the whole thing.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It only takes one bad spot.
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