So I finally found a real communist.

[ParkCungHee]

No, not an anarchist. Some force is necessary to maintain order and protect the people.

Wait, wait, wait.
So these people are living in an ideological fantasy because they believe in a system of government, and defending it by force, which you claims leads to a police state.
But you believe in a system of government and are willing to defend it by force?

 

[Traitorfish]

This is an ideological fantasy. You can't have communism without the use of force against those who are opposed.

How can you force somebody to voluntary associate with others?

 

[Murky]

Wait, wait, wait.
So these people are living in an ideological fantasy because they believe in a system of government, and defending it by force, which you claims leads to a police state.
But you believe in a system of government and are willing to defend it by force?

I believe that governments form naturally from regional culture. If all the people in a region are for a particular form of government then that form is most likely to succeed. When a form of government attempts to suppress the natural ways of its people, it is more likely to fail. Most people value freedom where I live. There is little chance of communism be implemented here without a lot of force, thus having more of a police state than a communist utopia.

How can you force somebody to voluntary associate with others?

The Soviets tried it. Communist China does it. Go ask some of their people how well that is working out for them. That is if you can get past the state police first.

 

[Traitorfish]

The Soviets tried it. Communist China does it. Go ask some of their people how well that is working out for them. That is if you can get past the state police first.

Um, what?

 

[Lone Wolf]

How can you force somebody to voluntary associate with others?

Well, we in Russia have the expression "in voluntary-compulsory order".

 

[ParkCungHee]

Anarchist scum have invaded these fora

Aha! But Anarchist Scum who converted to Anarchism by reading Tolstoy. What now?

I believe that governments form naturally from regional culture. If all the people in a region are for a particular form of government then that form is most likely to succeed. When a form of government attempts to suppress the natural ways of its people, it is more likely to fail. Most people value freedom where I live. There is little chance of communism be implemented here without a lot of force, thus having more of a police state than a communist utopia.

But your government already is implemented with a lot of force. And we've established that force is a good thing when it's used to "protect the people."

 

[Murky]

But your government already is implemented with a lot of force. And we've established that force is a good thing when it's used to "protect the people."

So you have no problem with a small minority imposing their will, by force, on the majority of the people without their consent?

 

[holy king]

So you have no problem with a small minority imposing their will, by force, on the majority of the people without their consent?

 

[ParkCungHee]

So you have no problem with a small minority imposing their will, by force, on the majority of the people without their consent?

No, I have a problem with anyone imposing their will on anybody by force. I'm just looking for a little consistency from you on the matter of when it's acceptable to impose your ideology on people by force.

 

[Murky]

No, I have a problem with anyone imposing their will on anybody by force. I'm just looking for a little consistency from you on the matter of when it's acceptable to impose your ideology on people by force.

What about enforcing the will of the people? If the people don't want murderers walking the street how do you propose to deal with the problem without the use of force?

I think you're looking for something that isn't there to begin with.

 

[Traitorfish]

What about enforcing the will of the people?

Who?

 

[ParkCungHee]

What about enforcing the will of the people?

I thought we agreed that Mao and Lenin did not represent models to be followed?
I'm having a very hard time finding a meaningful distinction between the hypothetical bolsheviks living in ideological fantasies and yourself.

 

[Murky]

I thought we agreed that Mao and Lenin did not represent models to be followed?
I'm having a very hard time finding a meaningful distinction between the hypothetical bolsheviks living in ideological fantasies and yourself.

Huh? You lost me. I am a pretty cynical person when in comes to the plutocracy we have now, but I am definitely not a communist or anywhere near it.

Far-left communist dream of a state run utopia. Far-right libertarians dream of a semi-Anarchy/free-market society. Both only exist only in fantasy worlds dreamed up by eccentric philosophers like Karl Marx and Ayn Rand. Both would probably turn out to be a hellish nightmare for most people. That is if they were ever truly implemented and strictly enforced by law.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Huh?

You are invoking the "will of the people" as a justification for the use of violence, yet criticizing communists, and have criticized Lenin and Mao, for doing the exact same thing.

If "the will of the people" legitimizes violence, what exactly was wrong with Lenin or Mao?

 

[Murky]

Why keep taking things out of context?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Because that's the only useful place to discuss ideas.
Does the will of the people legitimize violence, yes or no?

 

[Murky]

Because that's the only useful place to discuss ideas.

Interesting. Why do think one idea is deserving of attention while ignoring the rest?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Far-left communist dream of a state run utopia.

Haven't you posted in our thread before? Have you ever been exposed to communist ideas by actual communists?

 

[Murky]

Haven't you posted in our thread before? Have you ever been exposed to communist ideas by actual communists?

No. Why bother with something that has no chance of success?

 

[ParkCungHee]

Interesting. Why do think one idea is deserving of attention while ignoring the rest?

Because it's unintelligable to discuss every idea you have at the same time, and this is the one that interests me. You haven't attempted to discuss the sum total of existence with others yet, so why should I extend that courtesy to you?

No. Why bother with something that has no chance of success?

How can you know something has no chance of success if you don't know what that is.