So Islam is a religion of peace?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Thought just occurred.

This is the chamber. We're not allowed many frivolous things. Does linking to a site as inane as the one linked to fall under that category? Am I supposed to address linkage to such a site? Can I report it? Is it deemed good Chamber behaviour?

 

[Ailedhoo]

Thought just occurred.

This is the chamber. We're not allowed many frivolous things. Does linking to a site as inane as the one linked to fall under that category? Am I supposed to address linkage to such a site?

If the site is of hate speech then report.

 

[Traitorfish]

Explain it, then.

If we're taking violence by a small, extremist minority of a certain ethnoreligious group of evidence of the character of all members of that group, the you should apply this methodology consistently.

What I did not mean, and what you appear to have understood me as saying, is that there isn't enough anti-Irish racism on this forum. I assure, there's more than enough to be getting on with, as you have rather inelegantly demonstrated.

 

[Flying Pig]

As a Brit I am well familier with the IRA. Before 9/11 they were among the most violent terror organisations in the world. Before Osama was organising the blowing up of embassies the IRA were setting bombs at pubs.

The IRA were fanatics, so are al-Qaeda. It would be a error of judgement to use either of them to demonise a faith.

There's a very interesting article on that site which makes a point of saying that 'only' 3,000 people were killed by the IRA, 'only' fifteen a month, and generally playing that business over there as a little scuffle which really wasn't that bad and didn't have much to do with religion - I hesitate to become one of those people who talks about 'respect' on the internet, but suffice to say that such an argument doesn't cut much ice with me.

If the site is of hate speech then report.

I'm not sure whether it technically qualifies as hate speech, but it is bloody annoying.

 

[salty mud]

I like how you generalise an entire religion as "violent."

As a Brit I am well familier with the IRA. Before 9/11 they were among the most violent terror organisations in the world. Before Osama was organising the blowing up of embassies the IRA were setting bombs at pubs.

The IRA were fanatics, so are al-Qaeda. It would be a error of judgement to use either of them to demonise a faith.

If I am not able to generalise Islam as violent, why are you able to generalise the IRA as violent? Not every member of the IRA would be too fond of killing; some were probably against it. But the organistation they were a part of was violent. The same goes for the Nazis. Many people were part of the Nazi party and didn't particularly agree with their methods, but National Socialism is regarded as the one of the most evil forces in the world. Was every Nazi evil? No. But Nazism is classed as evil.

Is every Muslim evil? No. But the religion is hate filled and evil.

Thought just occurred.

This is the chamber. We're not allowed many frivolous things. Does linking to a site as inane as the one linked to fall under that category? Am I supposed to address linkage to such a site? Can I report it? Is it deemed good Chamber behaviour?

The site claims it can back up every attack listed with sources. Why don't you find out for us how reliable it is?

Also, why is it "inane"? Do explain. To me, it shows in a nutshell that the religion is indeed violent.

 

[Ailedhoo]

Is every Muslim evil? No. But the religion is hate filled and evil.

You are calling Islam evil? Do you think the majority are fanatics?

Incorrect generalisation. I was using the IRA in connection of how a few people use there actions to demonise Catholics. The IRA is an fanatical organisation. It would be a sad error of judgement to call Catholicism evil. It would be a sad error of judgement to call Islam evil.

I suggest you observe the BBC'c pages on Islam to understand the true notions of Islam.

All faiths may have fanatics that spread hate and violence but they do not make the faith evil.

Evil may lurk among the crowds on the streets but the streets and the crowds are not evil.

 

[salty mud]

You are calling Islam evil? Do you think the majority are fanatics?

Incorrect generalisation. I was using the IRA in connection of how a few people use there actions to demonise Catholics. The IRA is an fanatical organisation. It would be a sad error of judgement to call Catholicism evil. It would be a sad error of judgement to call Islam evil.

I suggest you observe the BBC'c pages on Islam to understand the true notions of Islam.

All faiths may have fanatics that spread hate and violence but they do not make the faith evil.

Evil may lurk among the crowds on the streets but the streets and the crowds are not evil.

<snip>

Moderator Action: Links deleted. Finding links that perpetuate hateful thinking and add incivility is not appropriate. I suspect that I could find as many links and quotes that show islam in a favorable light as you can find showing it badly. The same is likely true for Christianity.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Flying Pig]

The killing of non-Muslim humanitarian workers by devout followers of Islam occurs quite often. The executions are not usually celebrated by Muslims, but there is rarely if any outrage expressed over slaughter in the name of Islam by a community renowned for its peevishness.

I'm just going to leave that for someone else to sort out; that website is really, really annoying me.

Sadly it is not, for empirical, observable facts demonstrate beyond doubt that Islam at its founding is filled with violence&#8212;in the life of Muhammad himself and in the Quran itself.

Hence, these Muslim apologists must stop misleading unsuspecting Westerners, and they must be honest about the heart of their religion, for once and for all.

"Christians must be honest with themselves. The Old Testament is full of violence. Those who claim that they're not violent fanatics must be lying. I told you that Teresa woman had a funny look about her."

Choudary is the leader of Islam4UK, a group recently banned in Britain under the country's counter-terrorism laws. He wants Islamic Sharia law to rule the United Kingdom and is working to make that dream a reality.

"De Torquemada: Honestly, God's Fine With All This. Catholicism Clearly Promotes Torture."

 

[Traitorfish]

Is every Muslim evil? No. But the religion is hate filled and evil.

How can an abstract concept be "hate filled and evil"?

 

[salty mud]

"Christians must be honest with themselves. The Old Testament is full of violence. Those who claim that they're not violent fanatics must be lying. I told you that Teresa woman had a funny look about her."



"De Torquemada: Honestly, God's Fine With All This. Catholicism Clearly Promotes Torture."

Ah, the old, "Christianity is evil too" argument. You won't find me anywhere on this board or in real life denying that fact; it's one hell of a violent religion.

But I thought we were discussing Islam and its violence? Why are you bringing Christianity into this? What have you proven, apart from that you cannot challenge the fact Islam is violent?

 

[Flying Pig]

...Christianity, as a religion, is overwhelmingly peaceful. That's my point.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Also, why is it "inane"? Do explain. To me, it shows in a nutshell that the religion is indeed violent.

Am I supposed to address linkage to such a site? Can I report it? Is it deemed good Chamber behaviour?

So to my inquiry whether I'm supposed to respond to mindless linkage to such an inane site, you ask me to respond to linkage to such an inane site.

 

[salty mud]

I'm asking you to explain why it's inane. Not too difficult to understand I hope.

 

[Quackers]

I like how you generalise an entire religion as "violent."

As a Brit I am well familier with the IRA. Before 9/11 they were among the most violent terror organisations in the world. Before Osama was organising the blowing up of embassies the IRA were setting bombs at pubs.

The IRA were fanatics, so are al-Qaeda. It would be a error of judgement to use either of them to demonise a faith.

Dude, they didn't do it out of religious extremism. The IRA just wanted a united Ireland, "catholic" vs "protestant" was just a handy way to differentiate who were the evil colonists and the natives.

Now OBL did his acts out of religious inspiration. Non-Muslims occupying the holy land? Blow up the trade towers!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Christ. It should be obvious why I wouldn't.

Instead, let me ask you as question. Do you feel the Muslim extremist have it the right way when they are telling us what Islam is all about? And as a result, do you feel moderates are sadly mistaken when they are describing what Islam is about?

 

[salty mud]

Christ. It should be obvious why I wouldn't.

Because you can't? I thought that was the reason.

Instead, let me ask you as question. Do you feel the Muslim extremist have it the right way when they are telling us what Islam is all about? And as a result, do you feel moderates are sadly mistaken when they are describing what Islam is about?

I think the very core of the religion is violent and promotes hate. There are those who follow the hate, and those who have adapted the religion to a civilised, 21st century level.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Because you can't? I thought that was the reason.

Suit yourself.

I think the very core of the religion is violent and promotes hate. There are those who follow the hate, and those who have adapted the religion to a civilised, 21st century level.

Answer my question.

 

[salty mud]

It's bold of you to tell me to answer your question when you can't even explain why you find something inane.

But if you really want an answer; no, I don't think any Muslim is right. Belief is left to the individual; it's up to them if they're right or not. I'll just decide if it's evil or not.

 

[Traitorfish]

Dude, they didn't do it out of religious extremism. The IRA just wanted a united Ireland, "catholic" vs "protestant" was just a handy way to differentiate who were the evil colonists and the natives.

Even that risks over-simplification. The sectarian divide played a very limited role in shaping Republican narratives, which were despite some tacit pro-Catholicism on the part of the PIRA basically secular. Only in the Loyalist (and pro-Loyalist) camp did that sort of narrative emerge, and was in this instance explicitly pro-colonial. Where it was significant was in how it structured the Northern Irish racial system, which was far from a flimsy and ad hoc system, but rather penetrated Northern Irish society in every aspect.

Essentially, what we see in the IRA is a secular nationalist campaign forming within a structure of deeply-rooted ethnoreligious stratification; the former takes its shape within the terms of the latter, and so inevitably reflects those terms, but that does not mean that it simply reproduces them.

core of the religion

Not a thing.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It's bold of you to tell me to answer your question when you can't even explain why you find something inane.

I can. But I won't.

And like me you can always reply: no. And I'll accept that. I'll not accept a cop-out.

But if you really want an answer; no, I don't think any Muslim is right. Belief is left to the individual; it's up to them if they're right or not. I'll just decide if it's evil or not.

Belief is left to the individual, except when determining whether it's evil. Than it's up to you?