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So, was Trump right about "violence on many sides" after all?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ryika, Sep 6, 2017.

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  1. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Are they aware that it was the national symbol of a group who exterminated six million people? They likely are aware of that, no?
     
  2. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    • Warned for trolling.
    We're heading into dangerous waters so let's turn this around.



    Are you aware that this symbol was the national symbol of many groups who killed upwards of 100 million in the 20th century? Applying your logic, you should feel that people using this symbol are even more reprehensible. In terms of all symbols you could use, this one is clearly the worst of the worst. Is that your position?

    Moderator Action: "Turning this around" debate tactics are rarely positive contributions. Besides the fact that the discussion is about the flag of the Nazi regime (and its use in Nazism-aligned groups in America), equivalence debates seem solely designed to goad negative reactions out of everyone else while ensuring that you don't need to respond to the actual discussion taking place. This is, in essence, trolling. - Vincour
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2017
  3. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    I didn't see people on either side of the Charlottesville protests bearing that symbol.

    We're talking about a symbol carried by one of the "Unite the Right" protesters in a photograph you provided.

    Is the man in that photo likely to know that six million people were put to death under that banner, do you think?
     
  4. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    While you're on the subject of making up stuff, I didn't mention the driver, re-read the quote. I dont know what happened before he drove into people, but a trial should establish if he was attacked first - if he was that would likely result in dropping terrorism and murder charges to manslaughter or negligent homicide, etc. As for the white nationalists, they didn't show up at someone else's rally to attack them. Antifa does and they did in Virginia... Maybe antifa should show up with flowers, good grass and music. Well, I'm sure they got the last two covered. Kinda ironic people can walk around with weapons but get arrested for pot.

    Antifa is a threat to free speech... They attack protesters (compare that to abortion opponents intimidating doctors and their patients, are they a threat to abortion rights?) and their 'anti-fascistic' behavior threatens the free speech of everyone else too, especially Trump's critics. The hatred for antifa will grow as people see them in action and that will taint anyone 'associated' with them in just the same way people on the left have done to the 'other side'. What are you, one of those antifa/Nazi supporters?

    Antifa would let the Nazis live here? I think antifa would be removing plenty of people, including people who dont behave properly. The KKK and neo-Nazis are threats to the society I want to live in, and I'm a threat to their utopia. But we have a Constitution that protects me from their ideology and protects them from mine. Antifa ignores those protections, that makes them not only a threat, but an immediate one.

    They were the small part that brought weapons and started a fight, but I never blamed peaceful protesters on either side for the fighting - they didn't get violent. You're just making up stuff again while complaining about intellectual dishonesty.
     
  5. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    Here is a photo of a counter-demonstrator waving a Communist flag at Charlottesville:



    Is that man likely to know that one hundred million people were put to death under that banner, do you think?
     
  6. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Under your criteria you should be very ashamed of the banner of your country, how many millions died under it?

    Someday you'll grow up and understand that the world is more complex that the beliefs you cling to. Or not. The world will go on regardless.
     
  7. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    This is not my criteria, this is Gori's criteria. I'm simply asking him to be consistent with his own beliefs. If the Unite the Right attendees are evil because somebody brought a Swastika flag, then the counter-demonstrators must be even more evil because of those who brought Hammer & Sickle Flags.
     
  8. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Unlike you, most of the world regards the swastika flag evil but has no strong opinion on the sickle and hammer. It is you who are making up an equivalence.
     
  9. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    Not an argument.
     
  10. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    I think the equivalence was made up by the body count
     
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  11. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    As a measure of how closely associated the flags are with the respective genocides, if you go to Wikipedia's "List of Symbols," under swastika, you will find this:

    Under "Hammer and Sickle" you will find no such statement.

    I haven't used the word "evil," by the way. I'm asking you if you find the man displaying the swastika to be callous, given the strong associations between that symbol and the murder of six million people.
     
  12. civver_764

    civver_764 Deity

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    What about people's loved ones who died under Communist regimes? You think they're offended by the Hammer and Sickle? And if we're going by the numbers there's gonna be a lot more of those people than Holocaust victims.

    Plus, since when has somebody being offended made something off limits? Isn't that the whole idea of edgy humor?

    Indeed, what about the symbols of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism? Many people have been oppressed and killed under these belief systems. Should those symbols be off limits?

    Hell, as our friend @innonimatu pointed out, a lot of damage has been done under the American flag, but surely you wouldn't suggest that is off-limits.

    So I'm not buying your argument that this is just about people taking offense. There's gotta be something else to this.

    You're right, my bad.
     
  13. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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  14. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Super Moderator

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    Moderator Action: First off, Off-Topic is not Imgur and is not intended to be used as a repository of violent political images, especially if they're being used as "your side is worse". Taking such liberty with the rules only leads to the rules being tightened, which immediately makes it worse for everyone.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
  15. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

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    Moderator Action: This thread is remaining locked.

    There has been a recent trend in the community to ignore CFC's civility rules when encountering opinions and personalities that make them uncomfortable or that they are explicitly opposed to. This applies to both sides of the 'debate' and has been recurring throughout the myriad of threads that have been made about the subjects of white supremacy, Nazism, the alt-right, and the American administration's implicit or explicit approval of these concepts. CFC is sympathetic towards the rejection of abhorrent concepts and has taken several actions in the past to discourage or otherwise remove blatant breaches of civility and progressiveness.

    With that being said, the rules of CFC still apply to everyone. Considering one's opinion to be despicable is permissible. Attacking the poster for this opinion is not. Moderator notes have been made in each of these threads to avoid calling others terms with negative judgement (such as Nazi, fascist, SJW, or white hater) and these notes have been consistently ignored. CFC does not provide a safe haven for any one opinion and the staff team is prepared and willing to infract anyone who breaks the rules regardless of the overarching views being espoused. Those who are incapable of being civil or arguing in good faith will be and have been dealt with.

    How one chooses to deal with viewpoints they don't like in their personal life is entirely up to them. While expressing themselves on CFC, however, everyone is expected to abide by the rules. If someone feels content being posted is over the line, they are encouraged to report it and let the staff team deal with it instead of taking over-the-line liberties themselves.

    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
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