FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Irish Caesar said:
Why not use a more logical country to look at such as Afganistain and the soviet occupation and subsequent aftermath ? Which is a likely senario in Iraq
So what is really going on in Iraq?
- Thread starter Kayak
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Why not use a more logical country to look at such as Afganistain and the soviet occupation and subsequent aftermath ? Which is a likely senario in Iraq
Irish Caesar
Yellow Jacket
^ Because the Viet Cong and CSA were given as examples.
Gelion
Retired Captain
Thats what I was saying all along. Thanks for the link thoughFriendlyFire said:
It is quite known from ex army I have talked to, that they are trained to note that WP has more uses than illumination, like how to make booby traps with the canisters and such.
Fallujah was a city that got hit very hard, some estimates say up to 10,000 civilians were killed in the siege. It was very bloody.
Not to mention the at least hundreds, if not thousands of civilians burned alive by indescriminate white phosphorus bombings. There is plenty of footage around of helicopter gunships spraying the city with WP.
EDIT: Oh I forgot to add, the "liberal" america hating American press has nto said a whole lot about America using napalm on civilians.... even thought there is actual footage and pictures of the carnage.
Fallujah was sealed off and razed, because a handful of them hung up some mercenaries on a bridge. (not soldiers, very well paid civilian security contractors)
Fallujah was a city that got hit very hard, some estimates say up to 10,000 civilians were killed in the siege. It was very bloody.
Not to mention the at least hundreds, if not thousands of civilians burned alive by indescriminate white phosphorus bombings. There is plenty of footage around of helicopter gunships spraying the city with WP.
EDIT: Oh I forgot to add, the "liberal" america hating American press has nto said a whole lot about America using napalm on civilians.... even thought there is actual footage and pictures of the carnage.
Fallujah was sealed off and razed, because a handful of them hung up some mercenaries on a bridge. (not soldiers, very well paid civilian security contractors)
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Neomega said:
First of all it is a violation of the law of war and an offense punishable by court martial to construct and employ booby traps. I highly doubt the validity of your statement, that some ex-army guy would tell you this with the assumption that this was done in combat. Once again, it is not an illumination round, but a smoke round.
Sorry, the shellings (WP is not used as a bomb, but rather an artillery shell) were not indescriminate, as a point of fact, indescriminate shelling is strictly not allowed by the militarys rules of engagement. WP is also not carried by hellicopter gunships in any shape or form, to even suggest a gunship carrying it is simply stupid. I worked for years in an Army Aviation Brigade, and there is no such thing as WP ordinance for a helicopter. Most likely what you saw were flares discharged with the intention of breaking an infra-red missle track.
Unbelieveable. Next thing you know they will be saying that they have footage of our attack helicopters using disintegration rays.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
MobBoss said:Unbelieveable. Next thing you know they will be saying that they have footage of our attack helicopters using disintegration rays.
EDIT: also read the comments below the artical WP and deployment by helicopter caught a lot of people by suprise.
A lot og military personal posting comments: Highly recommended read
http://www.livejournal.com/users/insomnia/630212.html
I don't pull stuff out of thin blue air. Anythign I say, there is plent of proof to back it up. And, uh, I guess you missed the story about The US first lying to the British about using WP, and then later admitting they had?
And how do you suppose all thse civilians were melted, yet still kept their clothes en-tact... perhaps the summer heat just got to them?
Damn terrorist babies and children... what the hell were they thinking living in a city!? Flaming blistering death. God Bless America.
And how do you suppose all thse civilians were melted, yet still kept their clothes en-tact... perhaps the summer heat just got to them?
Damn terrorist babies and children... what the hell were they thinking living in a city!? Flaming blistering death. God Bless America.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
FriendlyFire said:
All of that is pretty darn blurry. But to me, it looks like an standard illumination round falling slowly with the smoke from the round drifing away in the direction of the wind.
Lets get one this straight. If a WP round is shot that high chances are pretty high that all the WP would be consumed in the making of the smoke as explained in the WIKI article (and its easily found elsewhere how it works). But these photos are so blurry, it looks more like one of the Aliens from War of the Worlds than anything else.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
MobBoss said:All of that is pretty darn blurry. But to me, it looks like an standard illumination round falling slowly with the smoke from the round drifing away in the direction of the wind.
Lets get one this straight. If a WP round is shot that high chances are pretty high that all the WP would be consumed in the making of the smoke as explained in the WIKI article (and its easily found elsewhere how it works). But these photos are so blurry, it looks more like one of the Aliens from War of the Worlds than anything else.
Please goto the link provided:
i edited it in just now:
Three veteran of falluja posted comments and replys.
Marines, artillary and mortar support back up such claims by stateing that they fired WP.
Personally: the use of WP should be used but under tighter control. it is an effective weapon and should not simply be discarded.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Neomega said:
Then I would love to see you back up your allegation of helicopters firing WP at civilians. Please do.
And try not to use photoshop....
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
FriendlyFire said:
Ok, I went to the link and read that. If the large ball of light is assumed to be a helicopter (which I find unlikely,as attack helicopters make easy targets if illuminated like that) then the curved contrails of smoke are most likely laser guided hellfire missles...consdiering the number of contrails it could possibly be 2.75 inch rockets, however, those would not have curved paths as they are not guided munitions. Also, bottom line, neither of those types of ordinance carry or use WP in them. Period. To my knowledge, we do not have a helicopter fired guided munition that has WP as its warhead. If you can find where we have such a device in our inventory please link it up. The allegation that it was a helicopter "spraying" WP on the town is just a case of mistaken identity. The zoomed in picture of course could be hellfire explosions in the town which is most likely.
EDIT: I went back and tried to count the number of contrails in the picture. A fully loaded Apache can carry 16 hellfire missles...guess what? There are just about 16 contrails in that picture. It is almost without a doubt hellfire missles being used there, although for the life of me I cant figure out why the helicopter would be lit up like that. In general a spotted helicopter is a dead helicopter, so they generally dont fly with all their lights on.
I fully believe the artillery untis and mortar units used WP...its a standard round used primarily for smoke so no big conspiracy there.
Oh and I forgot to add...
hahahaha, neomega is wrong.
kthxbye
No weapons should be illegal IMO.... But going to war should not be used for such weak reasons.
So any weapon used in an immoral war is an immoral weapon, from axe to nuclear warhead.
Any weapon used in a moral war is completely justifiable.
Of course Iraq.... not so moral war.
So any weapon used in an immoral war is an immoral weapon, from axe to nuclear warhead.
Any weapon used in a moral war is completely justifiable.
Of course Iraq.... not so moral war.
Mano3
King
Neomega said:
The documents just lend credibility to the country's motive. Do I agree? Not with all of Bush's decisions, but I am glad Saddam is ousted. As for the oil, if this is a war for oil, where is it? Why are gas prices so high?
Neomega said:
If it's such an evil country, why are you here?
Neomega said:
Nope, not in Syria. Guess again...
Neomega said:
Once again, you're believing all that the media spews.
Neomega said:
Again, if it's so evil, leave.
Neomega said:
Hmmm... I'm 39 years-old, had two mariages, have three kids, been in the military 19 years, deployed to Turkey for four months and lived among Muslims.
BTW, I worship God, not Bush.Neomega said:
I'm sick of the minority being the majority. Anyhoo... what is your background? It's hard to debate with you if I don't know my audience.
Neomega said:
Well, again I don't know your background so I don't know where this statement is 'coming from'. Eventhough I'm in the military, I'm not a war lover, but I have no problems about getting back at the masterminds behind 911.
Neomega said:EDIT: Oh and I forgot, you are bluffing... you have a tell.Read your own post about 20 times, and then you might find it, and not make the same mistake again.
You have to help me out here. A big family, full-time job and college kinda' makes things blurry at the end of the day.
Kayak
Partisan
And just who do you believe these people to be?Mano3 said:
A'AbarachAmadan
Deity
I guess another good question would be why do you think everyone who supported the Iraq war is a Bush lacky? Your posts certainly lend show that attitude. I don't know whether you are liberal or not, just a 'Bush hater' and rewriter of history, though I know those on both sides of the isle.
Fox is certainly a good source of news, as is CNN, Al Jazerra and a few others I watch or read. It is important to understand the issues from all points of view. If you always agree with the newscaster you are not hearing news. And calling someone who supports the Iraq War a 'war lover' is certainly disingenuous. War is horrible; but there are worse things. I was very intiment with how Saddam treated the Kuwaitis during his short time there and how he was treating 'his' people. I knew long before Bush took office I would be glad when we removed him. I'm constantly reminded of a quote by someone FAR greater than myself. He said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." I took these words by Dr. King to heart as a schoolboy and believe in them just as much today as I did when I first heard them.
Mano3 said:
None of the neocons expected the insurgency. Plain and simple, just one of dozens of major things they were completely wrong about.
Because it's my country, and dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
Oh brother. Now your bluff is getting ridiculous. Just give it up and fold. Your clearance has brought you no more credibility than anyone else on these forums.
I have read and studied this issue well beyond the beginning of the war. In any vector of the situation of Iraq, I can name many of the major players names, everything I say comes off the top of my head. I read at least 1 hour average a day news related to Iraq, including DoD briefings and other governmetn sites. That's my job as a responsible American citizen. There are plenty of cold, hard, numbers and statistics released by the DoD and in congressional documents.
There are also plenty of pictures and video, live evidence, that shows how it really is over there. I also happen to live in the densest military per capita county in the United States, so running into and talking to someone who has been there is not a big deal, and finding current military Bush haters is pretty easy to. (allthough they are getting more rare). I know realistically, only a small percentage of Iraqis ever experience the boot of America on their neck, but even if it were just 1%, that would be plenty to find a pool of willing volunteers to try and kill americans.
I also happen to know the US government can use heavy handed tactics on less than good intelligence here in the United States, I shudder to think what it must be like for the Iraqis being rulled not by a police force, but by groups of pissed off and frustrated Marines and Soldiers.
My country brother. I ain't ever leaving, your stuck with me. Sorry. But you are welcome to leave if the "lack of support" hurts your feelings and morale too much. I hear Iraq is a paradise these days. Laurie Dhew and Rita Cosby said so, and they have pretty blonde hair.
Hmmm... I'm 39 years-old, had two mariages, have three kids, been in the military 19 years, deployed to Turkey for four months and lived among Muslims.
Surprise, surprise, another Christian all for the war. It must be a verse in the Bible I missed, "and thou shalt drop bombs to save the souls of those who do not believe the world was created in seven days"
Please, you will get no ad hominem bait from me. It does not matter my back ground. I was raised a John Bircher, and voted republican most of my life.
I love all the amendments of the constitution, including the 1st, 2nd and 4th.
I was definitely one of those hated protesters on the street the first days of the war. I worked for a living, and have invested my money to persue a dream. Yeah, I love America, I just don't like Christian fundamentalist holy wars.
Let me guess, your top secret documents also show Saddam Hussein was the evil mastermind behind 9-11? Are you sure you aren't just watching FOX, and calling it "secret documents?" Cuz believe me, you don't need 20 years in the airforce to watch FOX, in fact, I think to watch it, you actually have to pass a dumbness test.
You have a tell. You are bluffing. Your secret documents certainly do not show enough evidence to support any movement of the WMD's. All bluster and fluff. Call it arrogant or whatever, but I would definitely bet everything I had 20:1 against you if we were at a poker table, because there is no doubt in my mind you are bluffing, and your secret documents contain nothing of the sort that you claim. The hand you had was too weak to start with.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Hey neomega, hows the search for those attack helicopter launched WP WMDs going?
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
MobBoss said:
I download the video with the short clip of WP being deployed from the helicopter. It cant be hellfireround given there slow decent and almost gental trajectory.
EDIT: yeap I had the hellfire conflused with dumbfire hydra missle pods which is why your post was so confusing.
I throught that hellfire missles were expensive and normally reserved for high priority targets ?
It is in fact a flare that was dropped from the helicopter (?) correctlty identified. By this time its position has already changed as it fires the first cluster of WP (?) followed by a second and a third. At no time was the helicopter illumated by its own flare.
Unforunity the video footage is low resolution:
images are at 200% optimised jpg 60%
EDIT: hmm why are my attachments not showing ?
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Kozmos
Jew Detective
WP ahhhh a finer weapon for burning innocent civilans there is not.Unjited Stejts Armi really is the best.
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