Something you should know about pizza delivery

[sophie]

I feel bad for you and your situation; I've been in bad financial straits before(my family filed bankruptcy at one point). But what, precisely, makes you think government can make businesses "strictly" adhere to a minimum wage law? Why haven't they been doing that from the beginning? Is the legislation going to try and cover every possible end-around?

Because minimum wage laws allow businesses to incorporate expected tips into worker compensation. It's why gratuity-based professions such as pizza delivery and waiter/ress get so consistently shafted and waiter/resses get so chippy about their tips. Possible government solutions: prohibit businesses from incorporating expected tips into their payroll. Require a fixed gratuity to be automatically incorporated into a customer's bill, as it is in most of the rest of the world.

 

[Borachio]

Anyone who can use the word "fungible" in a sentence, and make sense, is probably underemployed delivering pizzas.

 

[Drewcifer]

I was a pizza delivery driver in 1991. I was paid $4.25 an hour, plus $.50 per delivery, plus tips. My rent was $150 a month and my other expenses were low so I lived pretty well. What we have seen from then until now is the constant erosion of the living standards of the bottom half to two thirds of American society in the name of enriching those who were already comfortable. Many factors have gone into bringing us to this situation, but ultimately this is what happens when you have a government that governs in the interest of Wall Street and ignores the interests of the rest of society. Without change, revolution will come, in time.

 

[Crezth]

Because minimum wage laws allow businesses to incorporate expected tips into worker compensation. It's why gratuity-based professions such as pizza delivery and waiter/ress get so consistently shafted and waiter/resses get so chippy about their tips. Possible government solutions: prohibit businesses from incorporating expected tips into their payroll. Require a fixed gratuity to be automatically incorporated into a customer's bill, as it is in most of the rest of the world.

You are literally Adolf Hitler for proposing this.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You are literally Adolf Hitler for proposing this.

It's not like he suggested that the income tax is constitutional or anything.

 

[Hygro]

I think you are getting shafted. Time to look into getting a different job.
[...]
A pizza delivery job is for teenagers doing part time work, it should not be your career.

The guy's video-game forum username is about his identity as a pizza delivery man, so we can assume it's no mere job switch. That dude has educated us about pizza delivery in his multiple threads in a way that taught me a lot about a lot of things. When someone's in their zone they're in their zone.

I'd much rather have an experienced driver delivering my pizzas than teenagers. Fewer people die this way.

I was a pizza delivery driver in 1991. I was paid $4.25 an hour, plus $.50 per delivery, plus tips. My rent was $150 a month and my other expenses were low so I lived pretty well. What we have seen from then until now is the constant erosion of the living standards of the bottom half to two thirds of American society in the name of enriching those who were already comfortable. Many factors have gone into bringing us to this situation, but ultimately this is what happens when you have a government that governs in the interest of Wall Street and ignores the interests of the rest of society. Without change, revolution will come, in time.

Drewcifer is back!!! Even if it's a flyby, hello!

Basically in 1991 it looks like you're earning the same wages back when expenses were what, 1/6 what they are today?

BTW it's not even the interests of Wall St, or at least potential Wall St. I still have my eye on finance but unless we have another financial crisis very soon we're going to see earnings-inequality pass all milestones since the IRS has existed to keep track.*

I was watching a bit of the documentary on Phil Ochs last night b/c my dad was searching for a 60s protest photo (livin' at home, yeah economy/my choices in it!) he was in and it's like, these kids were talking revolution back when income inequality was at its lowest point ever since industrialization. That's the closest America has come post Great Depression.

Imagine what would happen if something could spark a movement now. Luckily for the system in place, the draft is gone and personal expression is legal and accepted...

So if I found myself on Wall St., trying to up aggregate demand by engaging in good investments or putting out legit economic research or something, and the rev comes, well, it was nice knowing y'all.


*Financial crises hurt those at the bottom the most, of course, but they impact those at the top a lot too, just more numerically than consequentially.

 

[strijder20]

That's disgusting. I feel sory for you.

Seems some governments forgot that raising workers' wages actually increases consumption too.

 

[JohannaK]

Because minimum wage laws allow businesses to incorporate expected tips into worker compensation. It's why gratuity-based professions such as pizza delivery and waiter/ress get so consistently shafted and waiter/resses get so chippy about their tips. Possible government solutions: prohibit businesses from incorporating expected tips into their payroll. Require a fixed gratuity to be automatically incorporated into a customer's bill, as it is in most of the rest of the world.

Actually I heard that this was done in the US, and I was shocked and astonished as it was the only place I ever heard of having such a thing. Also I find this atrocious. Tipping should depend on the quality of service.

 

[dutchfire]

IIRC It is also customary in Rome, though there it is probably just to rip tourists off.

 

[Light Cleric]

Actually I heard that this was done in the US, and I was shocked and astonished as it was the only place I ever heard of having such a thing. Also I find this atrocious. Tipping should depend on the quality of service.

It's included most places for large parties, usually like eight or more. They'll see "X% gratuity included".

 

[JohannaK]

I have been to the US after hearing that, but being 14 I didn't look much into bills.

 

[Hygro]

IIRC It is also customary in Rome, though there it is probably just to rip tourists off.

Tipping etiquette in NL is so goddamn stressful.

 

[Angst]

Union thugs

 

[Arwon]

What is the catch to Australia's awesomely high minimum wage?

Firstly, political certainty. National minimum wage and Awards (industry specific default conditions) are set annually by an independent agency currently called Fair Work Australia, so business has a much higher degree of certainty about what's going to happen. Peak union and business groups will make submissions to FWA about what is reasonable, and they'll whinge about the result, but at the end of the day can pretty reliably factor in ~2-3% increases each year.

This is in contrast to the USA where minimum wage is set sporadically by politicians. Inasmuch as minimum wages do have dislocative and unemployment promoting effects, the uncertainty and suddenness of politically determined minimum wages is a recipe for increasing them.

Secondly, our pay looks better than it is because the Australian dollar is currently high thanks to mining commodity demand. It's around 90 US cents and previously was over $1 US) rather than historical levels closer to 70 cents. So automatically our pay looks maybe 20% better than it would otherwise.

Thirdly, this country is more expensive to live in than most of the United States in terms of rent, food, energy and consumer durables, so higher pay is needed to match that. We suffer in international comparisons once you do a purchasing power conversion.

We've still got higher pay than the US, but not as extreme as this makes it appear. In 2011 our minimum wage of about AUS $15 converted to about US $10 in purchasing power parity terms. Also bear in mind, though, that we have other legislatively guaranteed entitlements aside from just the wage value (like penalty rates for night and weekends, minimum shift breaks and gaps between shifts, penalty loadings for night and weekend work, a loading for being casual instead of permanent, etc).

Fourthly, there's a youth wage so teenagers can be paid a rising fixed percentage of the adult Award based on age. The problem with that is that full pay doesn't kick in til 21 rather than a more reasonable 18 or 19. The idea is this promotes employment of unskilled and inexperienced workers who otherwise wouldn't be particularly attractive.

These wages only apply to people who aren't covered by another industry-specific award. For example although the minimum age is currently $16.37, in the fast food industry the award is $17.98.

There's also a disability wage for those with assesed capacity impairments.

(Due to fuel costs and such, pizza delivery is apparently still a pretty rubbish job here pay-wise, though.)

 

[timtofly]

It is called the greed of making money on your labor instead of just the product you sell, and it is disgusting. Slavery is still alive and kicking, and the government is still endorsing it.

 

[KmDubya]

We are talking about a pizza delivery job not being a pathway to financial success and many of you appear to believe that it should be. If you make their pay $15 per hour, who is going to want to pay an extra $5 or $10 per pizza just for the delivery? For that price many would just drive to the place themselves or choose to eat something more affordable but less convenient.

This is not a brain surgeon, this is a job that can be performed well by a stoner high school dropout. There is no benefit to society to reward this type of unskilled position with great benefits. Sorry to be the dream crusher here but that is reality. As I heard when I was young - "There are two type of people in this world, people who don't care about your problems and people who are glad that you have them"

Table ipad type devices are already being put into restaurants like Applebees to replace waitresses, it won't be long until fast food places do the same. When I was in high school I had a great job pumping gas part time. Now it is only self serve gas stations, some without even the dude in the glass box. They only take credit cards at the pump, no people needed at all.

What is society going to do with all of the people who will be better replaced by robots? They won't be needed and will in fact be a huge drain on society.

 

[timtofly]

So slavery is just a means to an end and who is going to provide all those "ending" positions. There is not enough work already, and you condone slavery because people cannot find other jobs?

 

[Tee Kay]

We are talking about a pizza delivery job not being a pathway to financial success and many of you appear to believe that it should be.

Please qualify "financial success". If you think it means "comfortably able to afford luxuries and investments" then I agree with you. If you think it means "enough to provide for basic needs independently", which is what I believe many of us believe a minimum-wage full-time job should provide, then I must disagree.

If you make their pay $15 per hour, who is going to want to pay an extra $5 or $10 per pizza just for the delivery? For that price many would just drive to the place themselves or choose to eat something more affordable but less convenient.

Paying their drivers a little bit more won't affect a large pizza chain's profit margins much but would mean a lot to individual employees.

This is not a brain surgeon, this is a job that can be performed well by a stoner high school dropout.

Actually no. A stoner would be dangerous behind the wheel.

There is no benefit to society to reward this type of unskilled position with great benefits.

Fast food operations literally would not be possible without all those unskilled workers. Someone's got to feed all those brain surgeons.

What is society going to do with all of the people who will be better replaced by robots? They won't be needed and will in fact be a huge drain on society.

People are willing to pay more for service by actual human beings. I know I am. Provided I get paid more for my below-minimum-wage job, that is. I would gladly pay that back into the economy for good service and a non-recorded voice.

Unskilled workers don't stash away their money like some of the rich does. Pay us more, and that money goes right back into the economy. That's economic stimulus, driven by the free market, with no big govt bailout package, creating more jobs and wealth further down the line. Everyone wins.

 

[Hygro]

We are talking about a pizza delivery job not being a pathway to financial success and many of you appear to believe that it should be. If you make their pay $15 per hour, who is going to want to pay an extra $5 or $10 per pizza just for the delivery? For that price many would just drive to the place themselves or choose to eat something more affordable but less convenient.

This is not a brain surgeon, this is a job that can be performed well by a stoner high school dropout. There is no benefit to society to reward this type of unskilled position with great benefits. Sorry to be the dream crusher here but that is reality. As I heard when I was young - "There are two type of people in this world, people who don't care about your problems and people who are glad that you have them"

Table ipad type devices are already being put into restaurants like Applebees to replace waitresses, it won't be long until fast food places do the same. When I was in high school I had a great job pumping gas part time. Now it is only self serve gas stations, some without even the dude in the glass box. They only take credit cards at the pump, no people needed at all.

What is society going to do with all of the people who will be better replaced by robots? They won't be needed and will in fact be a huge drain on society.

Cognitive dissonance, rising

 

[Crezth]

We are talking about a pizza delivery job not being a pathway to financial success and many of you appear to believe that it should be. If you make their pay $15 per hour, who is going to want to pay an extra $5 or $10 per pizza just for the delivery? For that price many would just drive to the place themselves or choose to eat something more affordable but less convenient.

This is not a brain surgeon, this is a job that can be performed well by a stoner high school dropout. There is no benefit to society to reward this type of unskilled position with great benefits. Sorry to be the dream crusher here but that is reality. As I heard when I was young - "There are two type of people in this world, people who don't care about your problems and people who are glad that you have them"

Table ipad type devices are already being put into restaurants like Applebees to replace waitresses, it won't be long until fast food places do the same. When I was in high school I had a great job pumping gas part time. Now it is only self serve gas stations, some without even the dude in the glass box. They only take credit cards at the pump, no people needed at all.

What is society going to do with all of the people who will be better replaced by robots? They won't be needed and will in fact be a huge drain on society.

I'm honored that you sig'd me.