Team Game - Isolated Pacal (Deity)

Nice :) next we tech AH -> Writing, right?

Shame about barbs, but np, 4th city will come soon. What about location? 3S to minimize risk of ruining seafood? Don't really have time to check east.

Agree about chopping Granary for 3rd city :)

So our new worker... should he really help with gems or go help with 4th city? If barb situation is cleared.

Do we want to whip a new worker in Lakamha soon? Avoid growth 1T to fill granary, remove avoid growth, queue worker, whip 5 -> 3 next turn. Will only lose coast. And could surely use him.

How do we feel about 5th city after Writing? Pigs? Can afford that for sure. Green land and explosive growth even without forests.
 
AH seems questionable :)
We would only tech it cos of 20% towards writing, i usually ask myself if it's really good at that point.
Worker turns are one of our bottlenecks currently, and changing pigs means more work.

Ideally i would aim for library whip in Lakamha.
If we move Mutal warrior there and woodie out, next build after granary could be warrior (for Mutal when needed).
Then not sure..writing would not be in time i think.
I like limiting workers and using scientists where there's lack of tiles.
Maybe a habit that's not really working well in this situation?

5th city i would consider useful when barbs situation relaxes, and if we decide for AH before writing.
Will have to think more.
 
Yup makes sense. I just think that we are not really prepared for Writing yet (would come in 8T probably). Lakamha could whip a library, but Mutal needs to grow back, Chichen Itza is size 1... especially with Gems coming I think we can afford AH :). Would give time to whip a worker in Lakamha... he could road that river tile for gem connection, then chop jungle.

Hm, I would almost use new Mutal worker to chop in our capital (Granary)? Size 10 without health problems once we connect our stuff. What do you think? Whipped worker from Lakamha would help connecting gems.

I think limiting workers can be good, but we probably want to work juicy river cottages as soon as possible. Commerce seems like our least worry, so I would try for explosive development. That's why I think even that 5th city would make sense soon :). Without FIN it might not make so much sense, but with gems we should still reach Monarchy in a decent time.

More exploration urgently needed, so moving out woodi warrior will be good.
 
With the current economy, Writing takes 7 turns at 100%, -9gpt. So we would need 63 in the bank to finish Writing. We are at 10, with +17 gpt, so 3 or 4 turns to build up the required amount of gold. Does it make sense to play those turns as a short turn set, then we can decide on Writing/AH.
Benefits of AH: Can build pasture on Pigs mine, discount on Writing, reveal horses.

Chichen Itza: 2 hammers overflow, 4 hammers per turn, +100% for granary. Border pop in 10 turns. We want a workboat 9 turns from now, preferably, so that it can move in place immediately as the border pops. With a chop 4 turns from now, we will have
2+4*4+20=38 bare hammers to complete the granary, then 8+5*4 hammers in workboat brings it to 28, so it looks like we will get the workboat one turn later.

Mutal: worker 2 turns, then granary?
Move worker out

Lakhama: Finish granary, then warrior (?)

Worker 1: Chop jungle -> Mine gems -> build roads to connect gems

Worker 3 (being built now): Either help with the gems, or chop in Mutal.

Survive incoming barbs and try to slowly move fogbusters a bit south.

New city 3S of current location, so that it can share the gems?
 
Yep 3s of current location for city 4 makes great sense, after looking some more and comparing.
Axe can sit between gems and city, and maybe even defend both.
Also no danger of destroying seafood east, as Lain mentioned :)

In that case i really like the built worker helping with gems, cos we cover the first tile for city 4 question and i think it's really difficult finding something better or similar useful.
Also leads to worker whip in Lakhama, without working gems we can afford that for sure.
That new worker can remove jungle 1se of Lakh, looks like a nice plan.

I guess we could tech AH first and Mutal uses only commerce tiles after granary, dropping copper cos we have nothing really useful to build.
Chop for Mutal is not needed imo Lain, if we use the shared mine it's only 3t for granary after worker.

My suggestions in short ;)
City 3s, Axe stays between gems and city when possible to protect workers too, new Mutal worker helps with gems, Lakhama whips worker after granary and putting 1 turn in, Mutal takes mine after worker for 3t granary and cottages afterwards, AH = okay.
 
Yups, agree with everything. Made picture with summary... so Dutchfire, you want to play a bit? :)

Spoiler :

Note that road on the gems is not needed and generally we don't need them yet, so new Lakamha worker should chop first + maybe even build cottage before building the single necessary road SE of Lakamha

Woodi 2 warrior can move out after whip.

Also, collect money for AH I guess :). But don't run 0% slider for too long, because once gems are improved we get a huge boost.


 
Last edited:
I will play later this evening.
 
Okay, I played a few turns, hope I didn't make any mistakes.
Eastern axe killed the archer on defence.
Central axe took out a warrior to make sure the new city was safe (99% odds)
Settled city 4, uncovered archer.

We need to decide:
* How to defend Uxmal. Promote the axe to combat or to woodsman? And move him 1NW to take the fight on the hill?
* What to build in Uxmal?
* What to build in Lakhama (with worker overflow)

pAnJVkp.jpg

TJinKBI.jpg
 

Attachments

All good :)

Settler for overflow in Lakhama would be fine imo, for Pigs city later.
Would not give any Axes woodi, combat & cover or CR for eventual barb cities later (on jungle they are too strong for barbs anyways, no matter which promo).

With no trade route in Uxmal, would we want a road first with Lakhama worker?
Worker above CI could actually speed up gems by another turn.

East Axe we need near Uxmal for some time, in case barb archer does not attack our other Axe and tries moving somewhere and more come.
 
Yup, looks good :)

Would suggest to put overflow in Lakamha into worker. Can be finished @ size 3 with hammers from mine. A lot of jungle to clear and I would suggest building farms temporarily in Uxmal to speed up growth (2x at least). Lots of worker turns necessary. Not quite ready for 5th city yet imo (no free workers, barb situation still unclear) and Settler could be whipped in Mutal later, maybe (reach size 6 with double food and whip). Rather grow Lakamha to size 5/6 now and use whip for library? It has decent food, but maybe not quite enough for multiple whips. What you think? I think it's hard to have "too many workers" here :D

West axe should probably get combat and move on jungle hill ofc. 0,1% chance for barb archer. Gets more tricky if he tries going for city directly (would have 14% chance right now). So east axe should go and assist, just to be safe.

Good points about road first with Lakamha worker. Also yup, worker above CI can help with gems, gains one turn and should be worth it

Could play next once all is discussed :). Anything we forgot?
 
If we block the archer's path by moving on the jungle hill, it will give enough time for support to arrive. Best case he attacks and dies. Defending in the city should be the last resort I think.

Promotions restore 50% of the health needed to reach 100. So in this case the Axeman has 64HP (checked combat log). Needs 36HP to reach 100 -> A promotion will restore 18 -> 82/100.

There is a nice tool to calculate fights, hope I'm allowed to link it: http://civ.zulan.net/vodka/ ... used frequently to calculate major attacks in PvP.
 
So how do we feel about worker vs settler?

I think an extra worker would be useful here and pay back quickly. Cost for units will also reduce with higher pop, we can grow a lot now with 3 granaries up. And if we want a settler in the near future more workers seem even more important :) with pig location quite far away.
 
I'd promote Uxmal axe and move 1W. That's still a 98-99% fight even with the axe being slightly wounded. Woody II warrior could move 2E and serve as emergency backup. We would lose his fogbusting, but it would hopefully only be for 1 or 2 turns. Might promote the other axe and shift him 1W or 1SW as well.

Improvements and worker turns needed over the next 20T or so:

A jungle cottage requires 8T plus worker movement into the jungle. That's 10 total worker turns if you double team with 2 workers so 1 cottage every 5T if two workers are paired up.

Mutal - Pretty well covered already. It currently has 5 tiles and is only working 3 plus it has two more shared tiles (lake and pigs) currently being worked in other cities. Improvements needed - none for a little bit, but maybe pigs farm and another cottage eventually? ~10 worker turns at most.

Lakamha - Ideal place to work 2 scientists i think. 2 specs + fish + gems + cottage or lake is fine at S5. We will want to chop 1 forest for the library though so that can be whipped with 2 pop later. Improvements needed - gems mine + 1 forest chop and probably1 jungle cottage. I think 5 more worker turns to finish gems + at least 4T to chop forest + maybe 10T to build a cottage. ~20 worker turns needed here.

Chichen - Needs to start a WB next turn. I think that will finish in time for border pop with some OF from the granary. Improvements needed: 2 jungle cottages north of Uxmal and maybe 2 regular grass cottages. That's another ~20 worker turns.

Uxmal - This city is kind of tricky. We have 1 first ring forest, but do we chop it into a granary or do we chop it into a monument to get more forests and more river tiles? It's going to have 3 of it's own river tiles for cottages + 2 shared with Chichen and shared gems with Lakamha. We would probably be ok for a bit without a border pop, but I'm not sure that's ideal. There's not going to be much food here to whip so getting those other forests would help a lot with getting the library, in particular. Trying to wait for a library here to get a border pop might be problematic... 90H is a lot for a city with no forests and no food.

Right now I'm thinking chop first forest into monument and build a farm there. Cottage the other 2 jungle tiles. After border pop there's 2 more forests to chop for granary and library and a couple more river tiles for cottages. Improvements needed: 3 forest chops + 1 farm + regular cottage (after border pop) + 3 jungle cottages. ~50 or so worker turns needed.

All told that's roughly 100 worker turns worth of improvements. With 4 workers that's ~25T. Is that fast enough? If we need all of this done in ~20T we need a 5th worker now.

Also, if we settle a 5th city that obviously adds more worker turns. My initial feeling was that 4 workers was enough, but after looking at this maybe a 5th would be smart. Uxmal is going to grow slowly though at just +3 food surplus so we don't necessarily need 5 tiles for that city for some time - likely a good bit more than 20T.

Thoughts?
 
If you wonder now why games with Izuul are great.. ;)

My thinking was that our tiles limit currently is Monarchy.
Another Mutal cottage i.e. gives a bit less commerce than using sea tile or scientist, for reaching Mona.
Green tile next to wine, so i would wait with going there until we have stronger stuff to improve in that corner (also when corn health will come closer to being needed).

Lakamha could use forest chop, or settler whip overflow for library hammers.
Only downside i see with settler whip is another red face, otherwise should be nps with a granary now to reach whip size.
(we can hold growth after overflow hammers are used, granary came a bit late..gives 5 food if we want)

My main issue with another worker would be that those earlier improvements should be worth 20g, cos we are at 2g unit cost and will need ~2 more warriors too for city police.
Considering that i would not improve something for Mutal, and we could save Lakhama forest, seems doubtful.
 
Yeah, i really don't think Uxmal will grow fast enough to need those improvements in the next 20-25T either. We can probably cut this down to ~80 worker turns and be fine with 4 for awhile. I think we delay the 5th for now unless we settle a 5th city.
 
I'm fine with putting overflow into settler aswell :) I just see some problem for Lakamha. If we whip settler into library later and then whip library again, that's too many :mad:-faces in short time. I wouldn't chop here, would rather preserve the health. And like Izuul says, 5th city will require even more worker turns. So basically I suggest that we only whip library in Lakamha (6 -> 3) and then run specs. Worker would almost be done with overflow right now, so immediately useful.

Also might need more worker turns than calculated, because for example two turns will be wasted just for moving on that Uxmal forest, moving on pigs, moving back etc.

My suggestion for Mutal: Grow to size 6 and whip settler here, later library. Has better happy cap to deal with anger + existing whip anger will fade away soon. 5th city will come later this way, but we will have the required worker force in place, maybe road down there + save turns. Would like to send two workers down south, to help set up 5th city quicker. One is not enough.

CI: The 2nd place I would aim to get a GS from. Or from Mutal, if we want to play without academy? CI might have more good (green) tiles to grow on. Don't think that academy is very good here, Vassalage later should be fine.

Uxmal: Izuul makes some good points about more forests, but I think chopping the Granary has to be superior. Sure, Library will come quite a bit later, but we can whip it for 2 pop some time after Monarchy when we turn down our slider (library won't be done before then anyway, no matter what we do right now, monument or not). With Mona we should also add a 2nd, maybe 3rd farm here. To let it reach size 10+ quickly. That's stuff we can afford to do with more workers.

Commerce isn't a big problem here I think, especially with gems. Basically I would add 2-3 more workers if I could and just accept paying for them :D. Well, happy cap limits usefulness right now somewhat. But one would be good to prepare 5th city better imo :)
 
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