Team Game - Isolated Pacal (Deity)

[Fippy]

Great stuff with how many trades we can get
How would you like those?

Spoiler :

None of those AIs stop trading fast, so i think we could take what we can get..even Masonry & some gold for the rest of Machinery.

I think we could try something different here, with mounted (would be very unlucky if nobody we meet trades us some horsie, they are not that expensive i think copper would be almost enuf). Sure, cannons should work but it's much rarer and maybe more exciting to use Cuirs into Cavs.
Continent east looks like it would be big enuf with 2 AIs on already, and good point on a Willy city too, for some fast mounted war fun.

 

[Lain]

I like Machinery for Masonry + gold with Gilgamesh. But I wouldn't give our Map to Wang Kon. I would buy his map and keep ours circumnavigation bonus really helps later.

Would have to pay Korea 140 gold or so for that. Hurts a bit, but we find other AI quicker.
So slider on 100% for Hunting this turn? So the overflow thingy works.

Hm I don't have much experience with mounted attacks in iso. Main problem I see is that usually a "good date" for Cuirs would be considered 700-800 AD and ours would be more like 1100 AD. So AI usually have Printing Press by then etc and could be 5-10 turns from Rifling. Just feels risky. Window of opportunity is bigger with Rifle+Cannon action. Military Tradition is also a bit awkward to get. With whole Aesthetics path, Code of Laws, Philosophy, Nationalism... all stuff we don't have and might not get trades for.

With big cities and so many cottages drafting is also really cool . I understand that Cuirs would be more exciting in a way, but there are not many detailed iso games on the forums, so even Rifle+Cannons done properly would feel like something new. Think (hope) many people follow this thread, even though we might not get many different posters . So while mounted would be great to pull off, it might be a bit too special if you know what I mean~

Also I would just feel more comfortable with cannon stuff, but I am open to ideas, don't want to be boring or anything

 

[Fippy]

Yep just an idea, discussing possible tech paths can be fun even if we decide it's not worth trying.

Summing up possible advantages, Mil Tradition is a bit cheaper than Steel.
Nationalism instead of Chemistry, hmm..not sure, any idea about that?
No need for guilds just yet, and can be possible to trade for Gunpowder later (while teching Mil Tradition).

Needs instead are Aest and Drama (replaces CoL as Philo req.) and CS + Philo, we would have to get both of those for Astro in one trade or it's not so good.
Getting Aest and Drama from other AIs would be optimal, but not sure it would work.

Sadly we have no great Bur Cap, as mounted can be boosted with stables that would be one major advantage to skip Vass and get more beakers from Bur.

My idea was that we can get Wangs map next turn (for Calendar or Alpha vs. Optics trade), he has no contact with Giggles or Asoka yet so i had my doubts he can contest our circum bonus.
Not much experience with the Astro overflow trick

 

[Anysense]

@Lain You aren't thinking in terms of a typical single continent game regarding the dates? Here we have just 1-3 civs on a continent; there isn't that much trade and that pushes typical deity benchmarks further, so ~1000 AD Cuirs might be ok? Hard to tell from what I see now though. I think that will have to be decided when the contact with the rest of the civs is established.

 

[Olafeson]

May i ask one question here.

Why is it so important to finish Astronomy in 1 turn with doube bulb + overflow from Hunting. 1 Turn into hunting and then 1 Turn Astro makes 2 turns anyway. Ofc double bulb but why overflow with hunting?

 

[Lain]

Well, we have T135 now.
On T136 we double-bulb.
T137 we have Astro (earlier is not possible). If we go into anarchy now, we waste a "Astronomy turn" with better trade routes, probably making close to 400 .

If we go into anarchy on T136, we lose a "normal" turn. But we still finish Astronomy because overflow goes into a tech even when in anarchy. So T137 we have Astro, can start teching/trading. Basically we win a turn. Or we lose a turn that doesn't hurt so much.

Still think I prefer Steel, also because trading for Philosophy soon might be tough (only Wang Kon has it so far). And for the other reasons. Mounted attack would come sooner, but that's maybe not so great. Cities #7 - #9 won't have time to contribute much and we probably have to whip away many cottages to get enough numbers . Many Cuirs will die and need replacement. In a good cannon war we maybe lose 5 cannons and nothing else. But will think about it some more, fun to consider alternatives for sure

Good point about maps. Guess we could give WK our map now and take his next turn. Saves money.

 

[dutchfire]

I'm currently travelling so can't play myself.
I think it is probably a good idea to do a couple of short turnsets during this trading period, since we're discovering a lot of new information.

 

[Fippy]

Few days pause maybe?

I cannot wrap my thoughts around another game currently, but if you want to play some more turns go ahead ofc Lain.
Astro overflow trick sounds nice, with hunting

 

[Lain]

No problem, let's take a break for a few days then . Think I played enough recently and one of you should continue when you have some time again. Still need a plan until then so gives more time to think.

 

[Tyler.Durden]

I've read the whole thread, looks like a very interesting game.

I don't have many credentials, but cannons + Riflemen via Nationhood + drafting look like a good option imo. The newly settled cities won't be able to produce any units for quite a while and research rate will probably be pretty high considering well-developed land + intercontinental trade routes. Thus if going for Cuirassiers production will probably not be able to catch up with research.

Not sure how you exactly organize your turnsets, but I'd be happy to play a few turns, assuming we discuss the moves beforehand

 

[Fippy]

Sure, we can discuss plans with you
Asking questions always helps, if you wonder what's best for that city, worker or trades.

 

[dutchfire]

I could do a turn or two during the weekend, I think playing this part out slowly is a useful learning experience, since many things are developing.

 

[Lain]

Ok I will take a look on friday or so and then we can plan a bit, also collect some thoughts on the big strategy moving forward here.

 

[Lain]

Well, some corner stones should probably be:

1) Tech Hunting at 100% now

2) We probably want the following trades on this turn

Spoiler :

(Or give Wang Kon our map and save on money)

3) Chop Granary / Start building farm for Quirigua (trade for Math first for 30 chops!). Also improve stone after the trade with Giggles.

Spoiler :

Next turn we would trade for Alphabet + Calendar ... also should secure Wang Kon's map in a trade, move western caravel accordingly for fastest contacts, double bulb with 2 GS and switch into Vassalage. GS can bulb even from a caravel, the one on land could move a bit and bulb with 0,5 movement left, who knows maybe we meet someone. Keep in mind that crossing a river costs a full movement point, so if in doubt just bulb . Nothing has to be whipped right now and next turn will be anarchy any way.

Ideally: Optics for Calender+Alpha from Giggles (might be too expensive though and he won't go for it) ... bulb now ... trade Optics for CoL+Map from Wang Kon. CoL has to be avoided until bulbs are applied, otherwise it ruins bulb preference (opens Philosophy). It's tricky because getting Aesthetics only makes sense if we go for Cuirs... hm.

Improvement wise, I think most workers are busy, but I wouldn't build any more cottages, in fact I regret building the last few. Farms/Windmills/Workshops all the way. The workers on grass-hills could probably windmill now. Farms for the new cities.

After the 2 turns we can still decide on the big strategy, I prefer cannons and can lay out some reasons later .

 

[dutchfire]

I could do a turn or two during the weekend, I think playing this part out slowly is a useful learning experience, since many things are developing.

Well, some things got in between. Hopefully tomorrow.

 

[Fippy]

Hopefully i have more time / energy for this game again soon, did not forget about it

 

[dutchfire]

Playing right now.

 

[dutchfire]

500 AD: Did as suggested. Considered changing an engineer to a scientist in CI, since I generally prefer scientists, but here the rounding of the multipliers made engineer okay.

520 AD: Did some worker actions (windmill in capital, farm in the new city, improving stone with two workers. That tile needs a road anyway so doubling up workers is not so bad)

Met Willem with the GS!!!

Willem has 7 cities, low score, is in love with Gilgamesh. He has guilds. Stopping here to discuss new diplo situation, going to make some screenshots and suggest trades.

edit: No, moved the western caravel first and met Greece, though I did not see their unit, strangely?? Anyway, we've now met all but one civ.

Anyway, Greece will accept Calendar for Compass, which enables our Astro bulb. Seems like a reasonable idea? Looks like Asoka is close to Optics, so we can trade that as well.

What about these trades?

Should we set espionage weights?

 

[Fippy]

Oops, time to get back into Civ

Currency, map & gold from Wang looks nice.

Then it depends if we are set on cannons, we could get Aest & Drama (for Mil. Tradition) too.
CS as well later, Philo seems not certain yet (Willy and Wang have, but not met each other).

Overall we have more trade options than we really need for Alpha, Calendar and Construction if we want cannons.
Guess it's time to decide on that
(would we pick up stuff like Aest if not for mounted?)

 

[Lain]

Welcome back .

Compass for Alpha + Gold with Pericles
Optics for Currency + Map + Gold from Wang Kon
And then Optics for Calendar with Willem?

Mouse-over in the diplo screen also reveals the last AI already ... should think twice about trading with Giggles. Construction would be nice though (Ball Courts)

Hm yes, how to attack~ ... well I almost want to know how Cuirs would work out, but I would feel more comfortable with a classic cannon attack. We have so many nice and big cities, probably don't want to whip them too heavily. Cannon/Rifles gives more time to prepare, also drafting possible. Cities #7 - #9 get enough time to contribute.

Self-teching (probably) Philosophy + Nationalism + Military Tradition vs. ... Gunpowder + Chemistry + Steel.

Biggest thing I don't like: Having to check for Rifling every turn. Instant death for our horsies. Np on a Pangaea, just pick other target, here everything is delayed a bit with Galleon transports. No Chemistry also means no Frigates for support. Maybe no big deal with cease fires (Asoka is wimpy with that). But to get enough Cuirs we definitely have to whip lots of villages+towns away . Cannons/Rifles don't really die so much and are fine until Artillery . With so much commerce we can maybe even add Artillery for next targets ourselves.

Soo I think Cuirs would work (on someone). If you like that much better we can try. Cannons+draft seems more natural to me though, both because of experience (I rarely do naval mounted attacks) and the 30 cottages we built

Would probably ignore Aesthetics path if not for mounted.