The 2024 US Presidential Election

[Gori the Grey]

Now, at this point, he isn't promising anything I particularly trust him to do.

I'm not sure he's promising anything. Even in 2020 the GOP didn't have a platform. "To be your retribution," I guess, whatever that might mean.

Oh, that reminds me. I got something to say to Sommer.

It might be even simpler. It seems that Republican voters prioritize their candidates winning, while Democratic voters prioritize the candidates "doing the right thing", at least what they, the individual voter sees as "the right thing".

So if the Republican candidate accomplishes little or nothing they promised, its OK, as long as they deliver the most important thing, which is winning the election. Whereas Democrats expect/want their candidates to take positions that will or may cause them to lose the election(s) as long as their particular policy goals are met.

Well, of course one must win first in order to go on to do nothing. But there's a further grain of truth here. One of the things conservatives want is just confirmation that they still have numbers, within American society. So every win reassures them on that point, just by virtue of the win, and irrespective of what the pol goes on to do.

 

[schlaufuchs]

I mean, the whole point of this argument is that Biden and the Democrats respect the Constitution and the limitations it sets on their exercise of power (something that I have complex feelings about since I mostly think the Constitition is trash but also recognize that, realistically, if we throw it out we are going to get a reactionary dictatorship, not the Paris Commune) and Trump and the GOP don't. So this is not entirely an either-or question.

I am not planning to vote for Biden because the electoral college means my vote is purely performative in any case, and Biden has, to put it lightly, not inspired me to take performative action on his behalf. But I would certainly vote for Biden if I was in a swing state. I'm sure I have many of the same criticisms and issues with Biden as you do, but I have little doubt that a second Trump term is going to be much worse than a second Biden term on all the issues I care about. That said, of course, if Biden can't get people to vote for him that's Biden's fault and not anyone else's.

Edited: Addendum to first point: i also agree with you that Democrats are often full of horsehocky and that's why they don't fight for things, it isn't purely a matter of their hands being tied by the law. And even where the Supreme Court is going to strike things down, I think there's political benefit in doing the thing and making the Court strike it down because it demonstrates commitment to the thing, e.g. how Trump just went ahead and did stuff and some of it did get struck down but he thereby demonstrated to his people that he was serious and wanted the things. But that is tangential to the point that Trump does not feel himself bound by the Constitution and will in fact be a direct force for evil in a way that Biden is not acting as a force for good.

I think the Democrat argument of “you gotta vote for us so we can get a supermajority/we can pack the bench with our justices” would hold a lot more water if they actually tried *anything*. “The blatantly partisan conservative courts shut down our bodily autonomy law, vote for us so we can appoint a judge who will pass it,” is compelling where “well what do you want us to do? haven’t you ever taken high school civics?” is not, particularly when they frame the issue as existential or world-historical. If you truly thought that, if you truly thought we were on the verge of a second holocaust or a fascist coup, you would be moving heaven and earth, doing everything in your power, even stretching the bounds of that power, to avoid it coming to pass. At the end of the day, the democrats are “powerless to stop this” in much the same way that the non-nazi Germans “had no idea” what was happening to the Jews who were taken away.

Trump will do better on both those issues, I guess.

Remember you're talking to a man who watched Little House on the Prairie.

It’s death by a hundred cuts or a hundred fifty. During this Democratic presidency I have lost the ability to legally visit 10 states. I have had to make peace with the reality that I will probably never get to see my last living grandparents ever again, won’t even be able to attend their funeral. I can’t tell you how many girls I’ve had to talk off the ledge over the past couple years, and I honestly don’t know what to tell them at this point because I don’t think it’s gonna get better. I remember when Biden won in 2020 I took that as a sign that it was safe to start coming out to friends and family. Now, 4 years later I’m taking it as an inevitability that whoever wins I’m probably going to end up having to flee the country, and I am making preparations accordingly.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Now, 4 years later I’m taking it as an inevitability that whoever wins I’m probably going to end up having to flee the country, and I am making preparations accordingly.

If you have that option you should take it. Life will be worse. for those who don't have that option, under a Trump presidency than under a Biden presidency. Since I only have one way of stopping that, in the 2024 US presidential election, I will vote for Biden.

 

[Core Imposter]

OMG, smiley creepy Katie Britt android horror doll. Was that for real or was it a SNL skit or did someone hack the feed? No way that's a legitimate senator.

That was M3GAN fo sure.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I thought the same thing, CI.

My first thought was, "Well SNL has its opening for this week"

Then my second thought was, "That was SNL's opening for this week."

Biden's speech was good. Did the main thing it needed to do. Dispelled the caricature that he's doddering.

 

[Core Imposter]

No, he's doddering but not yet tottering. He shouted the speech, which is okay given the low bar that Trump set. But holy cow. He didn't say the word abortion, that I heard. There is your headline on "As the Liberal World Turns". I see a small bounce but not durable. He survives to yell another day.

 

[Gori the Grey]

There is your headline on "As the Liberal World Turns".

Turn on MSNBC right this minute. Reproductive Freedom for All CEO is glowing over the speech.

I see a small bounce but not durable

Same as the polls: we're too far out for it to matter in November. Did what it needed to do right this moment. Most it could mean is a small bounce. Play this set of downs.

 

[Lexicus]

I think the Democrat argument of “you gotta vote for us so we can get a supermajority/we can pack the bench with our justices” would hold a lot more water if they actually tried *anything*. “The blatantly partisan conservative courts shut down our bodily autonomy law, vote for us so we can appoint a judge who will pass it,” is compelling where “well what do you want us to do? haven’t you ever taken high school civics?” is not, particularly when they frame the issue as existential or world-historical. If you truly thought that, if you truly thought we were on the verge of a second holocaust or a fascist coup, you would be moving heaven and earth, doing everything in your power, even stretching the bounds of that power, to avoid it coming to pass. At the end of the day, the democrats are “powerless to stop this” in much the same way that the non-nazi Germans “had no idea” what was happening to the Jews who were taken away.

I agree with this post but I still think Trump would be strictly worse than Biden on every issue that matters. I have to assume that a Trump win would likely also see the GOP take the Senate (House, who the hell knows) and the combo of GOP president carrying out Project 2025 with a GOP Senate and GOP Supreme Court is really something I'd rather not see.

Ultimately though I think it's pretty clear that we need to be organizing for armed self-defense, regardless of what happens in the elections.

 

[Core Imposter]

I was transfixed by the color of Biden's hands compared to his face.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I think it's a lighting thing. Watch clips and note how it changes as he raises his hands more to the level of his face.

If that's the worst you've got to say about it, then he knocked it out of the park (to switch sports metaphors).

 

[Core Imposter]

I think it's a lighting thing. Watch clips and note how it changes as he raises his hands more to the level of his face.

If that's the worst you've got to say about it, then he knocked it out of the park (to switch sports metaphors).

He always looks a whole heck of a lot better to me when Harris is standing behind him, and Johnson, did you notice that his mouth is wider than his eyes? The SOTU always makes me wonder if they are all lizard people wearing human suits.

 

[amadeus]

No, I think they’re polyester.

I admit I’m biased, but trying to view it as objectively as possible I think the speech was a flop. I also think that people aren’t going to remember it six months from now, so what does or does not materialize in the polls isn’t going to swing November.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Biden sounded good on the radio.
Barely paused to let people clap.

Who was the very loud heckler after Biden said crime was down?

I was surprised to hear we are going to build a pier in Gaza from the ocean without stepping on land.
Whoa.
Sounds like a move from World War 2 in France.

 

[Lexicus]

Biden sounded good on the radio.
Barely paused to let people clap.

Who was the heckler after Biden said crime was down?

I was surprised to hear we are going to build a pier in Gaza from the ocean without stepping on land.
Whoa.
Sounds like a move from World War 2 in France.

Parent of Marine killed in the American city of Kabul

The gaza harbor thing is mostly theater afaict.

 

[lymond]

I am not remotely convinced.

The more folks that think like you the better chance for Trump to win, which is disturbing enough. However, my argument is that it is more than just electoral votes that need to be won here. Vote.

 

[Lexicus]

The more folks that think like you the better chance for Trump to win, which is disturbing enough. However, my argument is that it is more than just electoral votes that need to be won here. Vote.

I'd still vote Dems for Congress but we don't get Congressional representation up in here

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Apologies if this should belong in Humor and Jokes.
Also a warning, if you are susceptible to cringe, you might want to avoid this one. Hence the spoiler.

Spoiler :

 

[Gori the Grey]

It is MUST. SEE. TEE. VEE.

If you usually skip the opposing-party reply to the SotU, b/c you think you can guess how they'll respond, don't this time.

You will not believe what you are seeing, and hearing.

And you will continue to not believe that you are seeing and hearing what you are seeing and hearing, more deeply and profoundly, for the entire length of the video.

 

[danjuno]

Ultimately though I think it's pretty clear that we need to be organizing for armed self-defense, regardless of what happens in the elections.

This is what so many liberals don't understand. Force is the only thing fascists understand.

 

[Remorseless1]

My wife watches Little House all the time. I watch with her a few minutes when I can.

Reading through this stuff, one main reason that Trump was elected is that he promised to actually do things and we all knew he didn't know that politicians try their best not to "solve" issues. Which is because they need the issues to fund raise and run on next time. Trump was an amateur. So, when he promised conservative judges and produced a list, we took a chance.

And he delivered (on that promise at least). So, we voted for him again because when will we ever again get a chance to vote for a politician that actually delivers?

Now, at this point, he isn't promising anything I particularly trust him to do. So, I might vote for Kennedy or someone else.

You're effing kidding, right? Trump didn't build his wall, he didn't make the tax system more fair, he didn't bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, he didn't solve Social Security funding issues, he botched the response to Covid and exacerbated the uproar during the civil rights protests in 2020. By pulling out of the Trans Pacific Trade agreement, Asian nations signed trade agreements with China. By pulling out of the Six Powers agreement, he enable Iran to resume its quest for nuclear weapons. He didn't repeal the ACA either.

Trump's administration was an abject failure on every count. He delivered on almost none of his campaign promises while causing the biggest challenge to the Constitution in history. People who vote for Trump are either suckers or wannabe fascists.