The advantage of a Monarchy

[otago]

It was amusing to hear people who criticised Bush/Obama as being unpatriotic, in the UK and other realms it is seen as being patriotic to criticise the PM and other ministers.
For they are just the hired help .


The Crown persists in the UK (and 15 other Commonwealth Realms that have voluntarily kept the shared monarch) for several reasons.
1. The Crown separates patriotism from politics. No British politician has ever been accused of being unpatriotic when they criticise a Prime Minister. Something that often happens in the US.
2. The Prime Minister may be master of the political landscape and have the power to fire nuclear weapons, but authority for that power is vested in the Crown and the Constitution, not in him. He may issue orders but it is still considered “advice” that the Crown is bound to act on.
He must address the Queen and senior members of the royal family as Your Majesty, Your Royal Highness, Ma’am, or Sir. He gets’ a townhouse and a small country retreat, while the Royal Family has multiple palaces. And while the Queen is first in precedence at all state occasions, the Prime Minister comes in 19th. It teaches humility to politicians, who are not noted for their humility.
3. The Crown makes Prime Ministers and cabinet members disposable. Because a President is both Head of State (symbolic leader of the nation) and Head of Government (in charge of running the government). They are very difficult to get rid of when scandal hits. Had Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton been Prime Ministers they would have been dumped in a matter of weeks instead of dragging the issue out for months.
And while a King is difficult to force out, when push comes to shove an unsuitable King has been forced out, twice, in 1688 and 1936.
4. What is now the UK had a republic. Parliament killed King Charles I and established Cromwell as Lord Protector (effectively President-for-Life). England was mired in war and became a military dictatorship until the Restoration. Not a good record.

 

[Zack]

It was amusing to hear people who criticised Bush/Obama as being unpatriotic

Obama is unpatriotic because he's black.



Am I doing it right?

 

[ParkCungHee]

1. The Crown separates patriotism from politics. No British politician has ever been accused of being unpatriotic when they criticise a Prime Minister. Something that often happens in the US.

I'm pretty sure Mosely, Sands and Collins were all called unpatriotic, in addition to being locked up, for their criticism of the Prime Minister.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It was amusing to hear people who criticised Bush/Obama as being unpatriotic, in the UK and other realms it is seen as being patriotic to criticise the PM and other ministers.
For they are just the hired help .


The Crown persists in the UK (and 15 other Commonwealth Realms that have voluntarily kept the shared monarch) for several reasons.
1. The Crown separates patriotism from politics. No British politician has ever been accused of being unpatriotic when they criticise a Prime Minister. Something that often happens in the US.
2. The Prime Minister may be master of the political landscape and have the power to fire nuclear weapons, but authority for that power is vested in the Crown and the Constitution, not in him. He may issue orders but it is still considered “advice” that the Crown is bound to act on.
He must address the Queen and senior members of the royal family as Your Majesty, Your Royal Highness, Ma’am, or Sir. He gets’ a townhouse and a small country retreat, while the Royal Family has multiple palaces. And while the Queen is first in precedence at all state occasions, the Prime Minister comes in 19th. It teaches humility to politicians, who are not noted for their humility.
3. The Crown makes Prime Ministers and cabinet members disposable. Because a President is both Head of State (symbolic leader of the nation) and Head of Government (in charge of running the government). They are very difficult to get rid of when scandal hits. Had Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton been Prime Ministers they would have been dumped in a matter of weeks instead of dragging the issue out for months.
And while a King is difficult to force out, when push comes to shove an unsuitable King has been forced out, twice, in 1688 and 1936.
4. What is now the UK had a republic. Parliament killed King Charles I and established Cromwell as Lord Protector (effectively President-for-Life). England was mired in war and became a military dictatorship until the Restoration. Not a good record.

You forgot about Queen Jane. She reigned for 9 days, after Edward died and before Mary had her arrested, imprisoned, and executed (her sentence would have been commuted it she had renounced her faith and converted to Catholicism, but she refused).

 

[ace99]

The only good monarch is a dead monarch.

 

[ParkCungHee]

The only good monarch is a dead monarch.

And his name was Aodh.

 

[ace99]

And his name was Aodh.

Which one?

 

[ParkCungHee]

The Ui Neill.

 

[Tahuti]

A society is a like human body and as such, the monarch becomes society's brains.

Gotta love these arguments made by Julius Evola and Charles Maurras, because you can't say "It's not utilitarian!", since it presupposes ethics dictated from above.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Monarchy may have a few advantages, but have listed none of them. The UK is a republic for all practical purposes.
The accusations of unpatriotism that are so common in the USA have more to do with american political culture and conservative ideology than their lack of an ultimately powerless, hereditary figurehead.

 

[Ailedhoo]

I am a citizen of Wales, a Britain born in England, raised on the Isle of Man and then moved to Wales to study. I am not a fan of monarchy: what symbolic will of a soceity is that the place of the head of state is determined by birth? Germany has a president and is stable. Considerations have to be considered.

4. What is now the UK had a republic. Parliament killed King Charles I and established Cromwell as Lord Protector (effectively President-for-Life). England was mired in war and became a military dictatorship until the Restoration. Not a good record.

The absolute monarchy of Charles I was better? There were many grand reasons why Parliament went against Charles I. The War of the Three Kingdoms was set between the roundheads and the supporters of Charles I. Charles I was not a good leader. Cromwell for ills he committed also made improvements, granting better chanec of speaking that Hobbes took to flourish, ended the laws making it illegal to be a jew in Britain, improved conditions for those with mental conditions and helped maintain the peace. Yes there was Ireland; it was a evil act committed there. However would a absolute monarch be note in difference? Elizabeth I was notable in setting England hands onto Ireland. Cromwell has both good and bad points attached to him. However the idea of giving power to one by birth is not a way of consideration for the willing of nation.

Consider this as I dream of the day Scotland and Wales becomes indepedent from English rule.

 

[Tahuti]

Monarchy isn't as much hereditary rule, since there are also elective and gravelkind monarchies. Monarchy is more defined by the fact that the land or at least the titles to that land are owned. A republic is public government, whose leaders "rent" the state, rather than own it. The Monarchy vs. Republic dichotomy is perhaps comparable to the Family owned business vs. the labor co-operative respectively.

 

[Borachio]

Bah! Monarchy. Symbol of inherited wealth and privilege. Mrs Windsor should get herself a job as a supermarket cashier. Like the rest of us.

Ceremonial heads of state should be selected by lottery. For a limited term.

Opinions may differ, naturally.

 

[bhsup]

The accusations of unpatriotism...

Thing is, what actually exists is the accusation OF the accusation of unpatriotism. People actually calling others unpatriotic are few and far between. It's just that the leftist wingnuts love to grasp onto those few extreme examples and pretend like it's an everyday normal thing.

 

[Dachs]

Bah! Monarchy. Symbol of inherited wealth and privilege. Mrs Windsor should get herself a job as a supermarket cashier. Like the rest of us.

Ceremonial heads of state should be selected by lottery. For a limited term.

Opinions may differ, naturally.

I agree except for the lottery part. A ceremonial head of state doesn't have a whole lot of ceremony if she's just random Rita from Bolton.

 

[Leoreth]

Thing is, what actually exists is the accusation OF the accusation of unpatriotism. People actually calling others unpatriotic are few and far between. It's just that the leftist wingnuts love to grasp onto those few extreme examples and pretend like it's an everyday normal thing.

So you say that the "support the troops" craze and what all counted as not supporting the troops or hating America shortly in the years after 9/11 never actually happened?

 

[Borachio]

I agree except for the lottery part. A ceremonial head of state doesn't have a whole lot of ceremony if she's just random Rita from Bolton.

I disagree.

I think having a random head of state getting to meet other "world leaders" would suit my ideas of justice, appropriateness etc very nicely.

Especially if the UK one was exceptionally unexceptional, with maybe slightly dirty paws, grubby frayed clothes and a bit of drool leaking out of one side of the mouth, and the opposite number a highly decorated, polished, well-scrubbed, narcissistic head of a banana republic dictatorship (if there is any such thing, but you get the idea I'm sure).


(Leave my friend Rita out of this discussion, please. If you don't mind. Thanks. Random she may be. But, for me, that's half her charm. And she's not from Bolton, but Bournemouth. FYI.)

 

[Leoreth]

Can your lottery draw every citizen, or only those who apply for it?

 

[Borachio]

I don't know. I haven't really thought this through, have I?

What would be the advantages of either method?

I have an idea for the colour of the lottery tickets: I suggest salmon-pink. But I'm willing to be flexible on this, should public opinion be in favour of another colour.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Bah! Monarchy. Symbol of inherited wealth and privilege. Mrs Windsor should get herself a job as a supermarket cashier. Like the rest of us.

Which "Mrs. Windsor"? Elizabeth? She's 85 years old. If she were anyone else, she'd have retired long ago. Kate? She's pregnant and in the real world, she'd be on maternity leave in the near future. Sophie? She's already got a job. Andrew is not currently married, so he doesn't have a "Mrs. Windsor" to tell her to get a job. Oh, and Camilla? Not sure what retirement age is in the UK, but isn't she about there anyway?