The Dural
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Vehem
Modmod Monkey
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Dural, Archos and Chislev are all looking at an overhaul during the 044-period (not the release version). I originally created them almost a year ago with a much more restricted toolset than we have now - many more possibilities for the redux now...
Well could you adress the issue why Archos champion uu can't access mithril? It makes no sense to me. Ok, it will make sense if you decide to cut mithril from regular axemen/swordsmen. +1 poison combat for a melee tank is not very impressive as they are not supposed to weaken their targets (poisoned is nasty I give you that) but destroy them.
So, I have been thinking about "the multi religous Civ"
What should a civ give up to have access to all of fall further Priest, and high priest (subistutes)and combat units and temples.
1 State religion, it civis and heroes.
2 Give the religous the pacifist trait ?
3 Take away mages and archmages?
4 take away melee units(like shehain or luchuirp)
5 a turn or to or disorder when a new temple is build?
I don't think there is a civ that could do this and it might give the Chislev some real spice........ Or Not?
What should a civ give up to have access to all of fall further Priest, and high priest (subistutes)and combat units and temples.
1 State religion, it civis and heroes.
2 Give the religous the pacifist trait ?
3 Take away mages and archmages?
4 take away melee units(like shehain or luchuirp)
5 a turn or to or disorder when a new temple is build?
I don't think there is a civ that could do this and it might give the Chislev some real spice........ Or Not?
xienwolf
Deity
That would be interesting, allow a civilization to ignore Religious requirements completely (dodging Abandon effects is already possible, dodging the build requirement wouldn't be hard to code at all), but be incapable of building any world units and probably arcane units as well. Then you can field 28 High Priests (as 4 Druids+Eidolons+Paladins?) for an impressive magical presence, but can't pick for yourself and miss out on all heroes (can't even Dominate any, but might get lucky and gain some through Command)
28? Does that include the 4(or is it 3) lizard type priest, and the scions death priest?
I was thinking, um like 40...
Runes, Leaves, octo, order, empem, Hand, Scions gift unit, and 3 Lizard units, oh and monks too, why not?
Maybe a wonder (partheon?) that lets you build any religious unit?
Hey what would the civ's hero be? How about a Entry Level unit like the old Pagan prophet, but with mage 1 as well as divine, and you can promote him up two levels,
That way you could get one or two archmage spells, but that is it. No running around with twincasting liches hemah and gibbon, with 2 back up liches and 4 archmages.
I thick adepts should be allowed, But that is a heck of alot of priest to chose from, eh?
I got it, or part of it (the handicap) always nuetral, and if that is to powerful, always evil (no altar of lunatar)
Still this civ would need just the right handicap so it doesn't become some mid game monster.
I was thinking, um like 40...
Runes, Leaves, octo, order, empem, Hand, Scions gift unit, and 3 Lizard units, oh and monks too, why not?
Maybe a wonder (partheon?) that lets you build any religious unit?
Hey what would the civ's hero be? How about a Entry Level unit like the old Pagan prophet, but with mage 1 as well as divine, and you can promote him up two levels,
That way you could get one or two archmage spells, but that is it. No running around with twincasting liches hemah and gibbon, with 2 back up liches and 4 archmages.
I thick adepts should be allowed, But that is a heck of alot of priest to chose from, eh?
I got it, or part of it (the handicap) always nuetral, and if that is to powerful, always evil (no altar of lunatar)
Still this civ would need just the right handicap so it doesn't become some mid game monster.
far_wanderer
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2008
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- 454
I have a few suggestions for good Dural-flavored effects.
1 - Better workers. As a race of builders, they should really have a UU worker that is faster and either cheaper or not requiring food to build.
2 - Enhanced passive xp gain. As scholars, they should be able to benefit more than other races from non-combat training.
3 - A unique civic. Something in cultural values that gives them a decent boost to culture and production, and maybe a free specialist, but HUGE war weariness penalties. That would represent their ability to thrive during peacetime as builders and artisans.
1 - Better workers. As a race of builders, they should really have a UU worker that is faster and either cheaper or not requiring food to build.
2 - Enhanced passive xp gain. As scholars, they should be able to benefit more than other races from non-combat training.
3 - A unique civic. Something in cultural values that gives them a decent boost to culture and production, and maybe a free specialist, but HUGE war weariness penalties. That would represent their ability to thrive during peacetime as builders and artisans.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
I like 1 and especially like 2... Passive training fits a scholar theme. However, I think there are enough unique civics in the game already.... Both lizards, the Chislev, the Bannor, the Scions, and soon, the Jotnar as well. Unless we're going to have one for each civ, we need to draw a line somewhere.
Edit: Although, the civic itself doesn't sound bad at all. If it were available to everyone I'd be okay with it.
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
yep, 1 & 2 sound great for a builder civ 
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
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2 and 3 are both thematically correct - in fact Karrlson is pretty much taking on the role of 2 when I rework him (he's seen the worst of the war against the Clan first hand and now teaches the Dural armies what to expect). 1 implies the "labour" side of building more than the "artistic" which is where they actually excel. They do have highly skilled workers, but as so much time is spent on decorating the farm (stone arches leading to the cattle yard, immaculately tiled roofs), it isn't necessarily constructed any quicker...
arkham4269
Court Writer - Orbis Mod
Reading this thread got me thinking about the Dural as Romans. First of, the Romans were a lot of things, builders, conquerors, and empire builders. However on of the things the Romans were most known for is that they exported "Pax Romanica" in that where ever they went, they spread the idea of a government by the people (such as it was for the time), a military of the people (for awhile when Noblis Oblige was in vogue) and that if you became a citizen, you were now just as Roman as some peasant down in Italy.
So how does the Romans suit the Dural? Well one thing I like about the Jotnar mod is that there are three leaders, one for each alignment. So perhaps the Dural could have the same and each leader reflects a different aspect of a Civ that is similar to the Romans.
First off, a potential 'evil' leader I could see in the sense of being 'lawful evil' where the Dural leader feels it is his/her destiny to bring Erebus back under control. I mean George Lucas really screwed the pooch by focusing on Anikan's fall due to his love of Padme when it was obvious that he REALLy wanted to impose Order on a Chaotic universe. Hell in comics, Doctor Doom's Latveria is a nice place, with high tech industries, low crime and the like. As he puts it, "The only liberty I take away is the ability to commit evil." So on the face of it, it is a 'benevolent' dictatorship. So here, the Dural evil leader might have access to the units mentioned that can build roads so help make "all roads lead to Dural"
The good leader might be more for the "Glory of Rome" side of the Romans where they see themselves of the repository of all things cultural. This leader would have less desire to expand and would probably need to have units and/or buildings to work more toward a cultural win. Personally, culture bombing is a favorite tactic of mine.
The neutral leader might be more for the type of people who build great works because they can in that it is the journey, not the ending, that is the point of life. So under this leader, the Dural would build great works. I know in Rise of Mankind mod (I think) there is a national wonder of "Roman Roads" and the like. Perhaps they'd have access to many national wonders that allow them to build quicker and faster. Plus I think they'd (and perhaps the good Dural) would have a way to hire mercenaries.
Just some thoughts will I avoid doing house work prior to my in-laws showing up.
So how does the Romans suit the Dural? Well one thing I like about the Jotnar mod is that there are three leaders, one for each alignment. So perhaps the Dural could have the same and each leader reflects a different aspect of a Civ that is similar to the Romans.
First off, a potential 'evil' leader I could see in the sense of being 'lawful evil' where the Dural leader feels it is his/her destiny to bring Erebus back under control. I mean George Lucas really screwed the pooch by focusing on Anikan's fall due to his love of Padme when it was obvious that he REALLy wanted to impose Order on a Chaotic universe. Hell in comics, Doctor Doom's Latveria is a nice place, with high tech industries, low crime and the like. As he puts it, "The only liberty I take away is the ability to commit evil." So on the face of it, it is a 'benevolent' dictatorship. So here, the Dural evil leader might have access to the units mentioned that can build roads so help make "all roads lead to Dural"
The good leader might be more for the "Glory of Rome" side of the Romans where they see themselves of the repository of all things cultural. This leader would have less desire to expand and would probably need to have units and/or buildings to work more toward a cultural win. Personally, culture bombing is a favorite tactic of mine.
The neutral leader might be more for the type of people who build great works because they can in that it is the journey, not the ending, that is the point of life. So under this leader, the Dural would build great works. I know in Rise of Mankind mod (I think) there is a national wonder of "Roman Roads" and the like. Perhaps they'd have access to many national wonders that allow them to build quicker and faster. Plus I think they'd (and perhaps the good Dural) would have a way to hire mercenaries.
Just some thoughts will I avoid doing house work prior to my in-laws showing up.
Vehem
Modmod Monkey
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2005
- Messages
- 3,219
Reading this thread got me thinking about the Dural as Romans. First of, the Romans were a lot of things, builders, conquerors, and empire builders. However on of the things the Romans were most known for is that they exported "Pax Romanica" in that where ever they went, they spread the idea of a government by the people (such as it was for the time), a military of the people (for awhile when Noblis Oblige was in vogue) and that if you became a citizen, you were now just as Roman as some peasant down in Italy.
So how does the Romans suit the Dural? Well one thing I like about the Jotnar mod is that there are three leaders, one for each alignment. So perhaps the Dural could have the same and each leader reflects a different aspect of a Civ that is similar to the Romans.
First off, a potential 'evil' leader I could see in the sense of being 'lawful evil' where the Dural leader feels it is his/her destiny to bring Erebus back under control. I mean George Lucas really screwed the pooch by focusing on Anikan's fall due to his love of Padme when it was obvious that he REALLy wanted to impose Order on a Chaotic universe. Hell in comics, Doctor Doom's Latveria is a nice place, with high tech industries, low crime and the like. As he puts it, "The only liberty I take away is the ability to commit evil." So on the face of it, it is a 'benevolent' dictatorship. So here, the Dural evil leader might have access to the units mentioned that can build roads so help make "all roads lead to Dural"
The good leader might be more for the "Glory of Rome" side of the Romans where they see themselves of the repository of all things cultural. This leader would have less desire to expand and would probably need to have units and/or buildings to work more toward a cultural win. Personally, culture bombing is a favorite tactic of mine.
The neutral leader might be more for the type of people who build great works because they can in that it is the journey, not the ending, that is the point of life. So under this leader, the Dural would build great works. I know in Rise of Mankind mod (I think) there is a national wonder of "Roman Roads" and the like. Perhaps they'd have access to many national wonders that allow them to build quicker and faster. Plus I think they'd (and perhaps the good Dural) would have a way to hire mercenaries.
Just some thoughts will I avoid doing house work prior to my in-laws showing up.
The Roman analogy is probably fair up to a point. Though they're not as Imperialistic, they do have the same pride that the Romans had in their empire and Brookden is most likely very similar in appearance to Rome in places. I can't see them with an "evil" leader, though a more neutral military leader is feasible. Dannmos is the consummate leader and politician, but he does have a number of others who provide counsel on matters he is not an expert in.
The roads are a solid option - easy enough to implement and they would probably have taken the time to develop the technology/have the skilled workforce to construct them.
Product of a "Fantasy Town Name Generator" - some need to stay as they're referenced elsewhere in lore, but if you want to provide some alternates I can replace the others (I tend to agree that they're a little too cheerful, even given the artistic naivety of the civ at the start of the Age of Rebirth).
arkham4269
Court Writer - Orbis Mod
Well in a sense isn't that what Decius is? To me an 'evil' Bannor under Decius is a fanatic that does evil while doing good. He's the type who wants to spread Order, but does it at the cost of liberties and repression which will later turn thing poorly. I mean hey, as I mentioned about Vader and Dr. Doom, Stalin made the trains run on time and everyone had free health-care but you had to endure the KGB spying on you and the lack of many liberties most Western world countries expect. Plus I could see Decius getting more and more repressive over time because people would resist the repression and Decius would take this badly "after all he had done for his people".
So my point about an 'evil' leader for the Dural was more of a kind of Teddy Roosevelt; a great leader who was also cock-sure of his country (and ethnic race to boots) superiority and was willing to use force to spread it. I mean I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination to see a great pride in your country to thinking, "Well EVERYONE needs to do it our way...since it is the best after all."
That being said, I guess you could easily just make Decius a potential leader of the Dural as well. Again I see him as 'lawful evil' in that he imposes order instead of cultivating it. Not to get to deep into this, but in line with some of my comments above about Decius, it would be nice if there was a cult or another religion that was 'evil' but less destructive as the OO or AV. Not to ding anyone's religion, but if you look at a stereotypical depiction of the Catholic Church during the Inquisitorial years it is a good example of an organization that takes care of it's worshipers, spreads 'good' works but also treats anyone not of their faith as just heathens and dissenters as heretics as well as being very Eurocentric. (Again I'm not knocking Catholics here just making an analogy).
None of the current religions seem to have that. I mean the Order religion is all about bringing good to the world and Empryean seems to be the "Gryfinndor" religion in being bold and brave. There doesn't seem to be one that either evil Civs can use but doesn't require you to trash your own people. As I said, for the most part during the Catholic/Protestant wars, your own church would take care of you but would do all in it's power to kill, convert, coerce those of the other faith.
All of this is getting off topic. Sorry.
I must say though that I do wish that every race could build 1 or 2 National Wonders of some form of Cathedral to their religion. I mean temples are nice but I can't see the different people of Erebus just being content with those and maybe if their lucky their Holy City Wonder.
Ahriman
Tyrant
That sounds a lot like a (weak) version of Basium to me, or any version of Bannor - which is still Good, in this mod.
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
City list:
<City>Brookden</City>
<City>Crystalhollow</City>
<City>Newshore</City>
<City>Bluebourne Downs</City>
<City>Southhollow</City>
<City>Eastbutter</City>
<City>Westerbeach Barrens</City>
<City>Rosemarsh</City>
<City>Marblekeep Crossing</City>
<City>Vertpond</City>
<City>Norbourne</City>
<City>Mordale</City>
<City>Normere</City>
<City>Northwitch</City>
<City>Springland</City>
<City>Strongfall</City>
<City>Violetbarrow</City>
<City>Snowmaple Beach</City>
<City>Ironrose</City>
<City>Brookbourne</City>
<City>Stonemount</City>
<City>Janley</City>
<City>Janshore</City>
<City>Wintermarsh Crossing</City>
<City>Valkeep</City>
<City>Fallbarrow Moor</City>
<City>Wellviolet</City>
<City>Coldcliff</City>
<City>Coldhaven</City>
<City>Goldville</City>
<City>Lakemoor</City>
<City>Oakmeadow</City>
<City>Fairbarrow</City>
<City>Highham Island</City>
<City>Deephedge</City>
<City>Fieldedge</City>
<City>Greenmead Crags</City>
<City>Redgate</City>
<City>Redmead Downs</City>
<City>Redwyvern</City>
<City>Oldmoor</City>
<City>Aldness Point</City>
<City>Oldshore</City>
<City>Blackdell</City>
<City>Blackden</City>
<City>Starrybeach</City>
EDIT:
i agree with most everything that has been said in here. one thing that could separate the dural from the other civs is having 'building upgrades' for some buildings. ie if you have building x, you may build building y which has the benefits of x, with some additional benefits, however x now becomes obsolete, for instance:
Elder Council -> Council Court (additional maintenance reduction)
Library -> Study Halls (additional Research)
Market -> Crafters Guild (Additional X%gold from luxury resources, maybe even +1 happy from some resources such as marble etc)
Barracks/archery range/stable -> Training Facility (Increased passive EXP gain for all units.)
Carnival -> Fair Grounds (bonus culture and/or happyness from luxuries)
etc
in addition to these, Dural could be able to build MULTIPLE monuments. by this i mean if they build a monument in a city (giving +2 Culture) they can build another monument (giving another +2 culture). perhaps make each additional monument slightly more expenisive than the previous one. possible even make Dural monuments give +1 happy from marble?
another idea is allowing Dural Forts to spread culture and be buildable outside of their borders.
and another idea is to allow Dural to build 'Trader' units which could act like miniature great merchants, trading their superior goods with other civs. it might be simpler to allow them to get extra trade routes from certain buildings.
xienwolf
Deity
Multiple Monuments sounds like Totem Poles 
Stack another one on there!
Stack another one on there!
Psychic_Llamas
Wizard in the Making
a new chislev mechanic?
Order is not about good. It is about obedience. Good and evil are gameplay mechanics in FfH, it has nothing to do with morals.
When you live in an av civ and sell your soul for whatever you get in return (power, money, women), it is your business. In an order civ you are burned as a witch. You know, there's this cool civic called liberty in the game. Should pretty much be unavailable to control freaks of Order. As far as I know, in the modern western world, personal liberty is valued pretty high and depriving a person of liberty is not considered very nice.
Now you'd expect me to conclude saying something like: Order = evil, AV = good. Nope, good and evil as well as morals in general are concepts somebody created to control other people. It is of course up to you whether you agree or not.
When you live in an av civ and sell your soul for whatever you get in return (power, money, women), it is your business. In an order civ you are burned as a witch. You know, there's this cool civic called liberty in the game. Should pretty much be unavailable to control freaks of Order. As far as I know, in the modern western world, personal liberty is valued pretty high and depriving a person of liberty is not considered very nice.
Now you'd expect me to conclude saying something like: Order = evil, AV = good. Nope, good and evil as well as morals in general are concepts somebody created to control other people. It is of course up to you whether you agree or not.
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