Cloud_Strife
Deity
And there's denial and denial and denial, all of which you seem to be in
The Generational-Linguistic Split
- Thread starter GoodEnoughForMe
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disclaimer: I always have to be careful discussing politics outside the US because "right" in Europe is like "center-left" in this country; to me at least; so I can't really comment on things in, say, the UK.
but just assuming this data is true for the US, I'd comment that a lot of this has to do with boomer politics pulling up the ladder behind them with NIMBY type laws when it comes to stuff like housing affordability, cost of living, etc. in major cities. unfortunately solving that does not necessarily come with voting Democrat for eternity but clearing house amongst your own party. Like, blaming Republicans because liberals can't afford a house in liberal LA or Frisco are some really really misplaced priorities...
but just assuming this data is true for the US, I'd comment that a lot of this has to do with boomer politics pulling up the ladder behind them with NIMBY type laws when it comes to stuff like housing affordability, cost of living, etc. in major cities. unfortunately solving that does not necessarily come with voting Democrat for eternity but clearing house amongst your own party. Like, blaming Republicans because liberals can't afford a house in liberal LA or Frisco are some really really misplaced priorities...
Which one is these is measurable voting patterns
Moriarte
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I am sure you’ve noticed that almost the entire world is fighting manifestations of communism for at least hundred years under a banner of Capital. Generations of westerners, and beyond, ingrained with an idea that free market is the way, while economic equality is a toxic dream, suddenly realise the error of their ways, throw away personal tracking devices and join US communist party reborn.
Farm Boy
run boy run
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Hardly the most remarkable feature of a human life. Maybe to us, maybe. But it certainly is one, a thing.
Narz
keeping it real
If the proponents of this stuff were organizing small scale communist style experiments in their cities I'd be curious (and in fact am curious). There are co-housing spaces and intentional communities like this in the US but they're few and far between. For the most part it seems it's solely theoretical for its online proponents.
Me personally I'd never join a community where I had to pool my money w the collective (iirc Twin Oaks is like this). But I'd be hard pressed to even pool my $ w a woman I'm dating. Maybe I need to trust more. They say trust but verify, but I'm more or a verify, then verify again, then a few more times then trust (and keep verifying) type or person.
Obviously a mixed, tightly regulated economy is gonna be superior to a "free" one. At the end of the day the powerful gonna find a way to pull strings regarless of supposed economic system, I'm in support of a world w more of a social safety net. Pure communism? Meh. Show me.
What does this even mean lol
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Spoken like someone who isn't struggling to make ends meet on more than one job
A desperate desire to ignore the oncoming political demographic shift
Literally the meme, congrats.
Lexicus
Deity
You laugh but it is said the pen is mightier than the sword; perhaps the iPhone is mightier than the AK-47.
Also how dare you participate in society while also thinking it could be improved, etc etc.
I read it as an attempt to say voting patterns don't really bear on the question. Convenient, eh?
Narz
keeping it real
Potentially but 99.9999% of the time it's just a distraction device
Moriarte
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Sure, I’ll expand. Society can and will be improved. Socialism offers the most effective path to get there. That might lead to eventual emergence of communism. “Real communist movement” in the US though? In a couple decades? After a hundred years of cancelling communists? I kindly doubt it. Yes, discontent is high. Yet, on the other hand, most modern governments and corps that matter have far greater degree of control over citizens today, than beaurocrats and businessmen of early 20th century could ever dream of. It will be difficult to rally society of comfort, convince them to make hard sacrifices, wouldn’t you say? The same society that have been programmed to hate anti-capitalism notions. The society that prefers to sleep away in existing hierarchies.
Giving up wealth? A bunch of mindless iphones might not suffice there. Especially considering the fact iphones themselves do what US oligarchs command them to do. Doesn’t mean it’s a lost cause. However, it is a modern peculiarity, which needs to be acknowledged, dealth with if we’re talking in good faith, not just hunting down any perceived enemy of equality with bow, arrows and memes. A population of uneducated Russian peasants circa 1900, torn by famines every few years is a slightly different bunch compared to modern American middle class. Which one would need to figure out how to convince in order to gain enough support to make meaningful change.
Narz
keeping it real
Capitalism, entrepreneurship, free enterprise has a massive hold on people's psyche. 'I started from the bottom and now I'm rich,
I got my bag and I ain't looked back since' etc
To be a winner means winning the capitalist game like our heros. Using our wits to scratch our way to the top and then using our personal power to stay there.
What does it mean to be a winner in the communist game? I get it we're all supposed to be winners but that doesn't click in the human psyche as there's no example to look to.
Who's the Slyvester Stalone, 50cent, Gary Vanerchuk of communism?
I got my bag and I ain't looked back since' etc
To be a winner means winning the capitalist game like our heros. Using our wits to scratch our way to the top and then using our personal power to stay there.
What does it mean to be a winner in the communist game? I get it we're all supposed to be winners but that doesn't click in the human psyche as there's no example to look to.
Who's the Slyvester Stalone, 50cent, Gary Vanerchuk of communism?
Josu
Emperor
If the question is, who, for example, was a mere son of a carpenter and became worldwide famous?
Then the answer is Yuri Gagarin.
The click maybe is undertstanding that in these other societies being a winner was having a different meaning than being a famous actor, singer or whatever Vanerchuk is.
You are aware there's, like, a decades-long history of films and the like being produced by (or relating to) communists? It's not like the US had the monopoly on films for a century or something. They were produced the world over. Just because they don't have the decades-long (imo overstaying their welcome) reputation of certain Hollywood action heroes, doesn't mean they weren't good or influential in their own right.
Joij21
🔥Hail Satan!🔥
I don't think it necessarily needs a rebranding, people will look to alternatives if the current paradigm doesn't lead to the so called ascension and life progression that neoliberals have promised the youths since they were born.
While Marxist movements have certainly had problems in the past, the alternatives would either be a return to traditionalism/religious fundamentalism (cringe), or fascism (highly lethal to everyone who isn't blond and blue eyed+white+non-Jewish. So an all around no go for most).
So generally speaking neoliberals need to reform and create a new capitalistic paradigm beyond the current neoliberal one (which has been failing for the past thirty years, but much more in the last ten since the great recession, and extremely ever since COVID and the war in Ukraine). However many Marxists believe this is impossible for the capitalists to do right now, they already shifted back under Thatcher and Reagan to the current neoliberal system, and Marxists now believe that the current system was just a duct tape and chewing gum solution to punt the problems of capitalism's tendency for profit to fall down the road by displacing labor away from the national and toward the international. Furthermore they would need a Thatcher or Reagan type of reformer to jump start the system again, and well right now the capitalists just don't have any ruthless and competent leadership pools to draw from right now. A real Machiavellian would be necessary.
Karl Marx currently has the upper hand.
Farm Boy
run boy run
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Yes, it's so so convenient.
You are seeking to measure how conservative and liberal people are, there are lifetimes of ways to manifest that. Disease fear. Cleanliness compulsions. Willingness to socialize(and since you've brought it up before, form partnerships) out of pack. Yes, and I suppose there is voting. Which. If we're measuring how a random faceless million is useful to me, I suppose is the measure to hang the hat on like a good little party man. Right? Because that's really what it's all about. Me.
Ehhhhhh. It's a bit more specific and concrete than that. It's the right wing party vote of each generation, relative to that country's overall vote shares. It's not "how conservative and liberal people are" in any absolute terms, it is all relative to other cohorts and mapping out contrasts within the whole.
It's not even comparative about degree of right wingedness across the given countries, given the gulf between the kinds of cuddly right wing parties the Irish or NZers are voting for compared to the lunatic party the Americans and really the British these days are saddled with.
And it's also just right vote, it says nothing about how left the other votes are going. Which is a really significant question given all bar one of these countries have more than one meaningful non-right party occupying quite different turf. Greens vs Labor, NDP vs Liberal, several parties vs Labour and Labour, those are all pretty important gulfs and it's really only the duopolistic US where you can even pretend there's something like a "liberals and conservatives only" binary for you to rise above like a mighty free thinker (but even there, that binary doesn't really exist it's just that the actual left doesn't really have a party because of reasons).
What it is showing is that people currently in their 20s and 30s aren't gently swinging towards the Liberals, the Conservative and Unionist Party, the Nationals, the other Conservatives, the Republicans. That's unlike their counterparts in many other wealthy democratic countries, and it's also in contrast to what the older generations did in those same countries. It demands some analysis really.
Sorry if that isn't esoteric enough I guess. But it has pretty important potential implications for many elections to come.
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Oh and back on the buying houses thing
Not sure the scope of cities included here from say Europe, and it's pre-pandemic so they have gone up more since... but it's completely insane that Caloundra is as unaffordable as San Francisco lol
Not sure the scope of cities included here from say Europe, and it's pre-pandemic so they have gone up more since... but it's completely insane that Caloundra is as unaffordable as San Francisco lol
Narz
keeping it real
Who are you favorites?
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