The Islamophobia split on the left.

[Farm Boy]

Ah ok, the little up arrow thingy that's displaying for me made me think it was applying to either of the two posts above it on this page.

 

[Smote]

I don't base my views of Islam being a source of violence on some TV evangelists. I base it on the doctrine itself, and facts from the real world.

 

[onejayhawk]

And if that's what he meant, it's still extremely racist.

Arabs are racist. This should not be news.

Bull and honkey.

Subtle.

J

 

[Takhisis]

I don't base my views of Islam being a source of violence on some TV evangelists. I base it on the doctrine itself, and facts from the real world.

And the facts from the real world come to you via…

 

[Arakhor]

Arabs are racist. This should not be news.

Which does not at all preclude you or Mouthwash being racist, apparently.

 

[Traitorfish]

Who was it that killed [edit: six million] Jews again, Muslim Arabs or Christian Europeans? You'd think I'd remember, but, hey, the mind's a tricky thing.

 

[plarq]

They both did.

 

[Traitorfish]

Okay, yeah, that post was meant to include the words "six million" at some point but I am obviously illiterate.

 

[Farm Boy]

Subtle.

I'm not sure of a circuitous method of saying, ''Dude, I think this part of your post just crapped on the kitchen table.'' Maybe ''Does it smell a bit? Oh my! How did a raccoon get in here?!?''

 

[Mouthwash]

Well, you were the one who used the term, so I thought you might know what it means.

I recall that I said this:

I view the Arab world as having a particular set of socio-politico characteristics, and I think that those characteristics are undermining the basic fabric of society.

That seems tenuous. To be an Arab, one must oppose Israel, and to oppose Israel, one must hate Jews? And Islam is also mixed into all, although you've not really been specified where. So what reason do we have to believe this?

When ethnic nationalism becomes predominant, nationalism starts remaking the ethnicity rather than the other way around. For instance, support of Israel can be considered a form of Jewish self-identification, and perhaps the predominant one today among nonreligious Jews. Does this mean that all Jews everywhere have to support Israel to be defined as such?

'Zionist' is to the Arab world what 'Socialist' is to the 1950s USA. Saying anything that could be perceived as supporting it - including sentiment that merely challenges Anti-Israel hysteria - can lead to social ostracision as Mouthwash pointed out. In fact, the normal relations between Egypt and Israel are perhaps more comparable to the US-Soviet detente than the post-war peace between France and Germany.

Israel and Egypt are basically allies. Same thing with Jordan, where the crown prince has actually learned Hebrew. But I'm not sure the populations are even aware that their countries recognize Israel at all.

Who was it that killed [edit: six million] Jews again, Muslim Arabs or Christian Europeans? You'd think I'd remember, but, hey, the mind's a tricky thing.

Arab society is one that could very easily commit genocide. It's not about how many people are prepared to commit murder; recall that Poland and France were more antisemitic than Germany was in the thirties. It's about how the perpetrators of genocide can subvert the public consciousness. In the case of the Arab world, there is no such thing as public consciousness. However, the inherent weakness of Arab states means that they cannot really be effective at anything. So we see relatively few genocides, but universal exodus of non-Arab Muslims from those countries.

 

[Takhisis]

Would you mind giving an explicit definition of what it is that you call a 'public consciousness'?

 

[Mouthwash]

Would you mind giving an explicit definition of what it is that you call a 'public consciousness'?

"Hey, the situation of the economy/minorities/poor is really bad! We need to change this for the good of our country."

I take my example from the Negev Bedouin, who don't view themselves as a community at all. You could commit a genocide against one village and the others wouldn't care in the least as long as they profited from it.

 

[Takhisis]

You are not saying what a public consciousness is.

 

[Mouthwash]

You are not saying what a public consciousness is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_consciousness

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't base my views of Islam being a source of violence on some TV evangelists. I base it on the doctrine itself, and facts from the real world.

Like talking to Muslims in your social circle about these matters?

I'm with you mate, I too go directly to the source.

 

[Funky]

Since this thread started with a TYT video about Sam Harris and his supposed points of view, I feel that this recent exchange between Cenk Uygur, the host of TYT, and Sam Harris should have its room here.

 

[Tee Kay]

Like talking to Muslims in your social circle about these matters?

I'm with you mate, I too go directly to the source.

I recently talked to a bisexual Japanese-speaking hijabi from Horsham by way of Pakistan and came away with a new appreciation for Muslim womens rights and gay rights activists, and learnt about gay couples in America who couldn't marry by law but were married under sharia. Am I doing it right?

She was actually quite fun to chat with and I'm kinda bummed I didn't at least ask for her Facebook.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I, Ziggy, President of interrelegious interactions in a recreative environment approve. Go with Zeus my son.

 

[onejayhawk]

Which does not at all preclude you or Mouthwash being racist, apparently.

Or you, or anyone else. Everyone is equal on this level. Was there a point to your post?

Like talking to Muslims in your social circle about these matters?

I'm with you mate, I too go directly to the source.

I spent two years in SE Asia. It gives you some perspective on what you know vs what you only assume. Equality is an assumption that is not universal. Racism is not considered a bad thing in some cultures.

Racism is not the right word, so I will use bigoted. Arabs are bigoted against other Muslims. Mohammed was Arab, which makes them first of equals. They are bigoted to the point of xenophobia about other religions, Jews being the worst.

J

 

[Flying Pig]

What, all of them?

Somebody should probably tell the Palestinian lady down my road who's married to an Israeli officer.