That would of course mean Gaza is a state, and a state at war at that, and make Palestinian resistance to siege and occupation the legitimate actions of a belligerent power.
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FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
No more justified then Hamas using kids as human shields
(The situation is completed F-up)
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
If we are talking about Legitimate actions such as Rocket firing indiscriminately ? or we going to extend this to civilian hostage taking, suicide bombing against purely civilian targets, using Children as Human shields, and so forth
Cause Israel would also like to Bomb indiscriminately
Then there is the other side that is blockading Gaza that no one like to mention, Though even if Isreal blockade is at the same level as Egypt the underlaying causes are different
"would also like to"?
I think you mean "already are, with no real consequences and barely any pushback".
amadeus
Serenity now
I believe as per the Oslo accords, Gaza is supposed to be part of the Palestinian Authority. The recognized PA does not control Gaza, so I believe it is de jure a Palestinian territory in rebellion.
Israeli-occupied territories - Wikipedia
(the WaPo link doesn't work anymore, and their articles tend to be paywalled anyway, so you get the PDF version)
Additionally, I feel like with all these technicalities over the territories being mentioned here, we should mention that the occupation of East Jerusalem by Israel is still technically-illegal, and a matter of some debate despite how long it's been allowed to continue for? What does that mean for Israeli statehood and sovereignty? Why is it only Gaza that we're discussing here?
Moff Jerjerrod
Deity
I do. I ask all the time. I bring this up not to throw a convenient 'gotcha' in an unrelated thread, which it is related by the way because we're talking genocide, but to show that terrible things are happening all over and we need to talk about all of them instead of isolating topics. The people are innocent, it's the governments that need to be held accountable for what happens. It's the governments that teach hate, or at least put the ideas of hate out there, not the people.
Because we all need to talk about every injustice being done. By singling out one party the problem may go away in that one case but what about the rest of the world? Awareness is key.
Thank you!
You haven't asked me. You evidently didn't as Lexi. Who did you ask, exactly? Where did you ask them? What other threads devoted to these other international incidents do we have other than the General Politics thread?
Can you evidence your claims about other posters in the slightest? Because this is why I say they're gotchas
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Gaza would be without power, communications, in the first 2 hrs of unrestrained bombing then dismantling of all industrial capability, and move onto less important targets
I dont think Israel would go full Russian (leveling buildings completely with artillery and then making small advances over the ruins)
Lexicus
Deity
Requiring that everyone talk about every single injustice every time they talk about any injustice will have the opposite effect, ensuring that no one can actually talk about anything.
This is already basically what's happening, minus the "small advance" part.
Satellite images show scale of destruction in Israel’s assault on Gaza
According to the UN, at least 45 percent of all housing units in the Gaza Strip have been damaged or destroyed.
But you know, I guess this time it's different because something something Hamas terrorists
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
I take it you have made threads about every other injustice?
Israel’s Fight With Iran Proxies in Syria Poisons Russia Ties
Israel’s Fight With Iran Proxies in Syria Poisons Russia Ties
Since it went to war with Hamas early last month, Israel has stepped up strikes against Iran-backed militias in Syria which have moved close to the Israeli border.
www.bloomberg.com
Since it went to war with Hamas early last month, Israel has stepped up strikes against Iran-backed militias in Syria which have moved close to the Israeli border.
The development comes with a key shift in Israeli policy — it no longer always warns Syria’s patron Russia in advance of attacks on Syrian territory.
The change, reported by people familiar with the situation, along with the stepped-up assaults, is worsening already troubled relations between Israel and Russia.
There’s a danger, moreover, of Syria emerging as a new front in the Israel-Hamas war, a situation the US and regional allies are trying to avoid as they seek to contain the conflict. Tensions are already high on Israel’s border with Lebanon, Hezbollah’s base and from where it’s exchanging fire with the Israeli military on a daily basis.
“Spillover into Syria is not just a risk; it has already begun,” Geir Pedersen, the United Nations special envoy for the country, said this week. “Fuel is being added to a tinderbox that was already beginning to ignite.”
Farm Boy
run boy run
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Well, considering Wagner's leader disappeared shortly after saying the quiet part of loud, that the ongoing attacks used as causus belli, were a lie... insofar that a causus belli matters at all, it may very well be different. But that's a question of why.
Verbose
Deity
It's even messier. As part of the settlement leading up to the elections, that Hamas won in Gaza, Hamas made a lot of tidying up of its profile, including all manner of declarations of policy in accordance with the principles of democracy etc – all designed to make Hamas sufficiently palatable, "normalized" etc. to get to run in these elections. And of course it then turned out Hamas was just be engaged in some very opportunistic lying.
So it's not a simple matter of Gaza supposedly rightly being under jursidiction of the PA, since the PA is only one possible expression of the Palestinian democracy that was supposed to be the outcome of a process (that is now pretty much stillborn, and the PA is not very democratic either, never mind how bonkers Hamas is). Hamas is a grass-roots organisation, numerous and popular enough that it simply could not be sidelined and completely shut-out of the election process back in the day. Doing so would have de-legimtimized the elections with large parts of the Palestinian public before they even happened. Especially since Hamas was playing nice, and making all the right noises and moves at the time.
(There were obviously misgivings about their sincerity, but only hindsight is 20/20, and it is possible at least part of the Hamas leadership thought there would now be a Palestinian state, peace and democracy, and so Hamas needed to actually change in accordance. There was internal conflict over it. So everyone with misgivings sort of still had to hope the crazies would not win that one, and maybe things could have come right in the end. And then it all went to crap.)
Besides, while the PA (PLO, Fatah, but not Hamas) has recognized Israel, it is not at all as clear that Israel has recognized the right of any kind of Palestinian state. According to that line of reasoning, all Israel has so far done is recognize the PA as a legitimate representative of the Palestinian side, someone it might actually talk to. (Which is a kind of progress, if the alternative might be denial the Palestinians even exist.)
r16
not deity
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the reasons the other thing is not being discussed in the media are quite relevant . The colour revolution election president pushes things , starts crisis to show Russia is powerless . Kinda sorta the case ; Russia does not intervene , Russian client state defeated ... This is for protection of "Democracy"
azeris with support of Israel , creating new options for bringing Democracy to Iran . That's why the US Right Wing avoids it ; Israel can do no wrong .
that nobody touches it in CFC with a ten foot pole ? It's the second country the Bidon Administration has lost ... after Afghanistan .
qualifications: Not accepting it as a state or country , not even Erivan did that . And no G word with the people leaving , which is Russia's fault , for whatever result
azeris with support of Israel , creating new options for bringing Democracy to Iran . That's why the US Right Wing avoids it ; Israel can do no wrong .
that nobody touches it in CFC with a ten foot pole ? It's the second country the Bidon Administration has lost ... after Afghanistan .
qualifications: Not accepting it as a state or country , not even Erivan did that . And no G word with the people leaving , which is Russia's fault , for whatever result
Lexicus
Deity
I think we should be clear that the reason for this is that the PA has been totally discredited by its "security cooperation" with Israel, and that in turn is due to the fact that the PLO recognized Israel and got essentially nothing in return, not even a cession of the settler encroachments. The degree to which this has completely discredited any Palestinian formation willing to work with Israel on any basis other than armed struggle is difficult to overstate. It is the mirror image of Hamas' bombing campaignin the 2000s discrediting the Israeli left, such as it was.
Netanyahu says no Palestinian state as long as he's prime minister
Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, in a final bid to shore up right-wing support ahead of a knife-edge vote on Tuesday, said he would not permit a Palestinian state to be created under his watch if he is re-elected.
www.reuters.com
I don’t know what “it” you’re referring to, other than the thing you’re quoting me as explicitly saying I don’t support.
It’s possible to support things implicitly such as by not acknowledging war crimes as crimes.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
West Bank is doing better then Gaza
Its not good the expansion of settlements but way back there was the idea of a settlement / land swap with Gaza before the entire deal collapsed, in the end Israel simply gave up its settlements in Gaza, along with its developed agriculture intact.
A land swap wasnt a bad solution but there was too much opposition to such a peace settlement
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