The Nile Gift - scenario creation thread

Arne said:
- Hurri (= Hurritians, later Hethitians)
- Naharin (= Mitanni)
The Hurritans WEREN´T Hittites. The Hurrites formed a state around lake Van and later founded Mitanni.
 
Takhisis said:
The Hurritans WEREN´T Hittites. The Hurrites formed a state around lake Van and later founded Mitanni.
True, but they settled (in parts) the same lands. Hurrtians where ejected from indogermanic tribes, one of this tribes became that, what we today call "Hethitians". The Land caled "Hurri" is not identical with that, what you call "Hurritians".
 
Yes, but they constituted rival states that fought each other and each considered the other as a stranger nation.
 
Hurrian is not an Indo-European (or "Indo-Germanic") language. There was an Indo-European language spoken in Mitanni, but that belonged to the Indo-Iranian (AKA "Aryan") branch of Indo-European, whereas Hittite belongs to the Anatolian branch.
 
At last there´s someone who can follow my train iof thought
 
It seems we sholud think about, going back to topic, becouse sorting all that languages, spoken by Hethitians and all that cultures in that region are much more complicated then it seems. For example, the language "Hattic" is not the language of (indo european) Hethitians, but its the language of the anatolian Hattians. To be correct... Hethitians did also not spoke Hittite, this therm IMHO is not longer used. They spoke "Nasili", that means something like "in the tongue of the citie NESA." (Hope that makes sense in english). Hattians are not Hethitians, even if this names are sometimes used synonymous. This is mad? Yes, it is, but we don't need to discuss about that any longer, we could simply go forward discuss about ideas for LouLongs sceanrio... ;)

PS: Hopefully I said nothing wrong, its pretty hard to translate the "German" therms in the right way.
 
Arne said:
It seems we sholud think about, going back to topic, becouse sorting all that languages, spoken by Hethitians and all that cultures in that region are much more complicated then it seems. For example, the language "Hettite" is not the language of (indo european) Hethitians, but its the language of the anatolian Hattians. Hethitians spoke "Nasili", that means something like "in the tongue of the citie NESA." (Hope that makes sense in english). Hattians are not Hethitians, even if this names are sometimes used synonymous. This is mad? Yes, it is, but we don't need to discuss about that any longer, we could simply go forward discuss about ideas for LouLongs sceanrio... ;)
Well, Hattian means "he from Hattusas" while "Hittites" means the whole group of the Hittites
 
maybe you could use my Rameses II
And my Nubian head...
 

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In Hittite, Hittite and Hattic are known as "Nezili" and "Hattili" (not 100% on spelling), but the name "Hittite" is too worked in in English to change.

Anyway, the map doesn't go far north to include any Hitties, Hattis, or Hurrians. :p
 
Takhisis said:
Well, Hattian means "he from Hattusas" while "Hittites" means the whole group of the Hittites
Sounds simple, but if it is that simple and "Hattian" means "he from Hattusas", what language is "Hattusas"? From what cames that and what dos it mean? ... ;)
 
???? Err... as much as I like historical debates about scenarios so as to make them both accurate and a good learning/"dwelling into" tool, I think your discussion should be in the History forum at this point... Because all lurkers are lost I guess seeing how I am myself.

About Mitanni, the map I showed is the result of cropping of an existing map of mine. So I can crop it less and Mitanni could be in easily. Even if only include Cilicia, Wassuganni is just at the northern limit so I don't need to change the map much to include a larger territory.

About the Hurrits I mentionned. For me they are partly related to the Hyksos.
The Hyksos mean in Egyptian the leaders of the foreigners. As happened during the Great Invasions at the end of Western Rome it is very likely a group of hurrits (a pillage or war party raid from the Van lake for instance) using chariot technics that established a fief in northern Palestine from where they created a mixed culture (hurrit/semitic) with mostly hurrits as the "nobility" (marjanni which is Indo-European BTW, in the Indo-Indian/Iranian branch) then invaded Egypt.

@ Arne : I really trust you for the Egyptian names of cities but for the moment and for the ease of comprehension, could we use Greek names right now. It would be nice to have the real names for the scenario but since I know maybe 3 of them, communications bewteen us right now would not be easy ;-)
On the other hand albeit extremely rusty my German exists so I can get most references you make. Besides I am no native English speaker myself !

@ all : the major question right now is "what time frame do we choose ?"

I have made a proposition that seems to please some people but you might have different opinions/propositions. I just won't go for hellenistic times because that's not our topic (albeit I love hellenistic times and am really knowledgeable about it (or maybe because I studied and worked on that era too much actually).
 
MaisseArsouye said:
With a powefull pharaoh, a scenario mainly based on egypt is pointless because there's virtually no opponent.

In the choosen period, we start with a divided Egypt and must unify it. That's a challenge ! Now, we have to know : do we start before or after the Hyksos invaded northern Egypt ?

I think a middle solution would be to start before, while giving the Hyksos such a military power that they will easily take over a weak Delta in a few turns.


Great Minds always meet ;)
MaisseArsouye (c'est bien un nom de frite ça ;) ) got exactly what is on my mind. Does not mean everybody has to agree though.
 
The Second Intermediate is probably the most interesting period.

The Predynastic could also work, but we'd have much less to work with unitwise. Tech-tree might be easier, tho.

(It occurs to me that a Predynastic scen might be similar to my Maya scen in some respects - very limited variation in units, and a bunch of basically very similar civs as the main players. Speaking of which, Lou, did you ever try it? Your input would be valued. :))
 
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