The real apartheid state.

[Mouthwash]

Time to mop up this folly of the thread.

In some respects it is. In others, it's remarkably dissimilar. Especially with regard to the treatment of Jews.

Actually, not all Jews seem to think so.

(I know this was an old post; I couldn't resist.)

I'm going to put what I said in the simplest possible terms: when Pappé first published his book his quote was understood to be an accurate and faithful representation of what Ben-Gurion said. Morris seems to have been the first person to use the quote Pappe used and the first person to realize that the quote might not have been accurate. But Morris' decisive change in his position only came in 2012 with other scholars following, more or less, in lock-step. 2012... post-dates the publication of Pappé's book by more than a decade. So does this make the quote fake as you claimed? No, it does not.

This just is another reiteration of your lie. haroon presented the quote as real, I debunked it, you derailed the discussion by quibbling about Pappe. And has it ever occurred to you to actually look at what I was responding to? You said this: "Bar-Zohar another scholar who is supposed to have used the quote states that "There is no doubt in my mind that Ben-Gurion never wrote the sentence: 'We must expel the Arabs and take their place'" but doesn't go on to say the quote is fake."

You don't seem to get that there's multiple possible interpretations of the quote, as I noted. Yours is one, and while it might be the more probable interpretation, but it isn't the sole interpretation. For that reason, I noted that the quote wasn't "fake" but rather might be "forced".

Let me just condense this down to the simplest terms imaginable: you quoted Shamir as saying: "The rioters would be crushed 'like grasshoppers.'"

This is false. Shamir actually said: "From the perspective of thousands of years [the rioters] are like grasshoppers compared to us."

Let's give the first, fake quote a unique and interesting name, so that you can mentally keep track of it. Think of it as "Pinkpartyherpes." And the second quote (remember, the one I'm claiming is real) is "Hitlersjam."

So, I had the burden to prove that the quote as used by haroon was essentially fake. I have done so. Your "interpretation" relied on Pinkpartyherpes being accurate. But, as I showed, Hitlersjam is the accurate one. Therefore, your interpretation cannot be seen as reasonable. Comprendes?

To now claim that "we're discussing the quotes in the context that haroon used them" is inaccurate. I set myself a task of determining whether or not the quotes were accurate. I found that two were in full, and one was in part. That's it.

Neo-Nazi: Hitler gave orders to transport Jews back into Germany because he was trying to protect them, not kill them! Here is the quote!

Jew: That isn't real. Besides, with all the evidence I presented that the Nazis killed millions of Jews I don't think it's worth individually refuting this.

Troll [interjecting]: Here are some sources that prove it real!

Jew: Now that I look into it, I see that the quote is actually documented, but taken out of context. It doesn't show that Hitler didn't kill the Jews. Therefore I've refuted you both.

Troll: Nuh-uh! I never agreed with Neo-Nazi that the Holocaust never happened. I simply assigned myself the task of determining whether the quote was accurate, and therefore can't be held responsible for anything it might imply!

Sound reasonable?

I was protecting myself from not very well veiled charges of antisemitism.

Intimating that I might be out to smear Israel (the Jewish state) or Israelis (citizens of the Jewish state)... is tantamount to a charge of antisemitism. It's not that damned hard to parse.

This has to be the most despicable thing I've ever seen on Civfanatics. And of course, it's unfalsifiable to boot; so there's no criterion of what constitutes anti-Semitic intent for me to refute.

Apparently Israel continued construction on 14,000 housing units in illegal settlements during this most recent round of peace talks.

Wow.

I didn't realize the peace talks were still happening.