The shogun strikes back!

[PaulusIII]

Got the save.

My initial instinct on where to settle is always 'settle towards the enemy' so from that point of view we should indeed try to grab the ivory/rice site, provided Monty isn't already there. But I'm a bit worried about the costs of that city since it's far away and we're Toku. We cannot afford irresponsible economic actions. With that in mind I'd settle the silver first.

We might find another worthwhile site along the coast but that'll have to be explored first.

Techwise, get Writing for libraries then depending on the AI's we might want to go for either Alphabet or a tradebait tech (where I favour CoL due to it being on the path to bulb Philo - always a valuable action ), then use that to get IW, Sailing, and Math. Masonry... I dunno. I think we don't need masonry unless an AI is trying to kill us.

 

[Diamondeye]

Both "B" and Osaka is a better Moai site than "C" imho.

Oh and does anyone disagree with offensive settling (ie towards the enemy)? We are Toku after all

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Paulus: agreed on settling the silver first (see my previous post)... we need IW then (before alpha I mean) to improve at least one tile of that city...
About COL: I like having it early on... but trading it against IW or math is being raped by the AI (plus trading it open early philo for the AIs)... I prefer aesthetics or even monarchy for that... what do you think?

@DE: Agreed, Osaka is obviously better...

In anycase, whether you go Writing or IW -> writing, I think we will need to discuss the next research with knowledge of the AI's progresses (read play until writing )
I think Rolo and Sweetacshon haven't talked about their settling preference... It would be nice if we wait for their opinion

Cheers

 

[Sweetacshon]

It's quite tempting and ambitious to grab the ivory next, but it is a fair way from home for maint, draining early worker turns away from the capital, not to mention crazy Monty next door. However, I am game if you are! Sometimes it is necessary to be more crazy to outwit a crazy AI. We should have enough food and gold/silver to settle the others and (re)boost science soon enough. The settler could also grab the other gold as a backup if ivory is taken. Of course it'd be nice to have a little more map info. Silver first is certainly the safer option, and probably the one I'd take in SP, but I'm usually more cavalier in SGs.

I think writing first for libs, and I love an early academy. Good point about IW and the silver site tho.

re: Moai- I was going to question why not Osaka, as it is mediochre (without gold, at least), so Moai would make it a passable prod'n city, but then I looked more closely at C, which has less water, but enough food and hills to be a production monster with Moai... I'm guessing this was the idea. I suppose this decision doesn't have to be made now, anyway.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

but then I looked more closely at C, which has less water, but enough food and hills to be a production monster with Moai... I'm guessing this was the idea.

Yeah that was my thinking... while Osaka would gain more from Moai, this city will never be a monster no matter what, on contrary site C has the potential to become a nice production city

About ivory (we can open a thread about that ivory ): I guess we can send out scouting units first to see what Monty is up to... if the spot with rice + ivory is opened, we might then go for it. But in this case, silver has to go next to support the eco

Cheers

 

[PaulusIII]

As usual, a quiet turnset. We teched Writing and IW while expanding a bit. I also took the liberty of growing our cities a bit (precious metals are awesome but you can't work them all day...) so Osaka and Tokyo now produce more and get more beakers as well. Don't whip Osaka or Tokyo below pop size 3 or I'll... or I'll... well, you get the point.

Tokyo was founded on the silver site, by the way. I didn't want to risk the elephant gamble before Writing was in, and by then we lacked a settler. And even then we know that Monty is already settling the area because there's Aztec culture around there. Probably for the copper site.

After teching IW: we have iron. We'll need another city to work it, but we have iron. Essential for samurai!

Another settler is ready in 2 turns. We might still be able to grab an elephant or two, with IW in we can chop out the jungles and farm for a good city. We can also expand along either coast though the land on the east coast looks better. Once that settler is out I don't know whether we already want to put scientists to work in Kyoto or spam more settlers. We certainly have the land for it, though.

We have a LOT of land at our disposal.

Oh, and for those frustrated by the monoreligious happy nonwarring continent we drew the last time around; check this out. He's already in WHEOOHRN even though it's not past 1000 BC. This game is going to be a lot more fun.

 

[Diamondeye]

Looks good! I might be able to get a set played tomorrow, if I am up?

Besides, we need some discussion; What techs do we want now? Who is Shaka after? And do we want to keep spamming settlers yup or get some specs running?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi guys ,

Besides, we need some discussion

indeed

I would have build granary first in every cities... I think we should switch to that in city 3... same in the cap after the settler and perhaps another worker... we need them to . I guess we want a fast GS now we have a lib in the cap . But still, we shouldn't hire scientists while the cap is building settlers and workers (obviously)...
And we should also start cottaging Kyoto.

EPs could be directed toward Charlemagne and Monty, our closest neighbours (we got discount the closer the guy we are spying is)...

Tech path: Note sure alpha is good... there are only butchers on this map... Perhaps monarchy makes sense with this capital... what do you think?

on settlements: I think now that Monty settled the area, the best site for ivory is one south of the western resource... it grabs all the resources and is riverside.
After that, what do we want to do ? Targetting the gold and the stone? I have yet to find a good site (even if it's easier for the stone)... so input would be welcome

Comments, rants, unrelated jokes appreciated ...

Roster duty:
DE -> up!
Rolo -> on deck!

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

edit to DE: most Cavaleiros are online, come please

 

[Diamondeye]

With this land to work and so much (commerce) potential, I would consider not whipping at all (then again that is the weakest point of my earlygame), so I don't consider grans nearly as important. I agree with Ras on city placement for Ivory, but we have to make sure we arent angering Monty (yet). After that we should settle to grab Iron imho.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

With this land to work and so much (commerce) potential, I would consider not whipping at all (then again that is the weakest point of my earlygame), so I don't consider grans nearly as important.

It's about production... granary basically doubles your food ouput after the first growth. So, when you can convert food in everything, granary doubles your output...

 

[Diamondeye]

Oh but we can't turn food into everything, we can turn it into hammers. I specifically mentioned the commerce potential of our lands. I detest slavery and would prefer that we do not run the civic at all, but I understand if you guys want to. I am just informing you that it's a waste when I play my turns since I have no idea how to utilize it properly.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

growing twice faster also gives you more commerce

 

[r_rolo1]

And we can turn food in gold *cough*hammer oveflow*cough*

 

[PaulusIII]

I'd prefer that we - if we whip - we whip carefully. Tokyo has the silver mine and some cottages up on the FP, and Osaka is now size three and working the good tiles - gold, horse, fish - so we won't want to whip there either.

Kyoto on the other hand has much food because we have been farming the floodplains. It will regrow quickly without the loss in terms of commerce that we would get from whipping Osaka or Tokyo. We can whip a few settlers there. If we are going to do a landgrab then we want this situation to remain since Kyoto's the only site where we can either slowbuild or whip settlers. (And if we're going to do a landgrab, don't shy away from the whip!)

We can also consider - if we are settling a bit slower - to start converting Kyoto to our science capital, which would mean cottaging the FP's and maybe running a few scientists on the food surplus. Since early war would be useless in this game we can afford a little less production.

I'd say get Alpha nonetheless. Shaka and Monty are the only two that are really averse to trading in this game. Usual 'we don't want to start trading... blah blah blah' restrictions do not apply to Monarchy so we have no problems obtaining it with Alphabet anyway.

 

[shyuhe]

Monarchy is easy to trade for. Unless you have wine, it's not worth teching yourself. I would tech towards GL as we have marble. Might as well put it to some use! I would also consider the Parthenon if we can get a GP farm set up before we complete the wonder.

As for settling, I still want the ivory so I say 2 E of the rice. Near the stone, I'd settle 1E of the stone. Unless we scout over there and find food, might as well just make it coastal for trade routes. I would also build a chariot at some point and send it scouting. Knowing who neighbors who will be critical in setting the warmongers after the right people.

Regarding whipping: I try to avoid it unless there's at least one food special in the bfc, or it's to whip a granary. Especially if the city is primarily working cottages. I wouldn't whip away pop working a gold or silver mine unless absolutely necessary at this point of the game. They contribute too much commerce to ignore.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Yep, don't bother teching monarchy, which should be fine to trade for later... and is not necessary in the near future anyway. I'm fine with alpha or mason>aesth>lit.

Kyoto is our only viable source of settlers/workers right now, but both B and C can soon take over this role and it can get down to scientists and cottages. I'm for C then B, but if we want the ivory, perhaps take that archer up to see what is on the east of the phants. Actually, now that I think about it, lets grab the ivory with the current settler (I'd prefer it on the hill next to the rice for defence, but it's too close to Monty), 2-whip the next settler for C, build chariots while regrowing, settler for B, workers etc, which delays the scientists/GS, but why not do that in Tokyo? The borders will soon pop for the wheat, and the lib won't take long with the mines in. Probably slow build defenders/workers in Osaka.
edit: I realise now that Kyoto has no granary yet, changing things slightly. However, if we are to settle the ivory next, getting C in for the iron is a very high priority.

Otherwise, we're struggling for good cottagable land, maybe around the ivory and in the for east of the ivory. There is adequate coastal food in the south for scientists, tho - somewhere else that whipping will be invaluable.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Regarding whipping: I try to avoid it unless there's at least one food special in the bfc, or it's to whip a granary. Especially if the city is primarily working cottages. I wouldn't whip away pop working a gold or silver mine unless absolutely necessary at this point of the game. They contribute too much commerce to ignore.

I was really thinking to Kyoto, which has only farms right now and no granary... and which will still produce settlers/workers for a while... ofc you don't want to whip floodplains cottages, precious metal, good tiles in general...
I like the Parthenon/GLib plan personnaly (could Toku likes culture finally? )...
I agree with Sweetacshon about settling priorities: settling the ivory makes C the obvious choice for next city as Monty won't leave us alone too long

Cheers

 

[shyuhe]

Ok it sounds like we have a plan then. I'll play tonight. Settle ivory and then iron. Do we want to settle the iron near stone or the iron near wheat? I prefer to settle out further to grab more land. Gold + silver will pay for the two cities, and the stone iron can pay for itself with gold once the borders pop (although it'll never grow large).

Techwise, I'm going aesth -- literature, hopefully trading for alpha at some point. I'll play 15ish turns.

 

[Diamondeye]

Barb incoming! Strangely, the barb archer does not attack, so Satsuma is founded:

From the screenie you can also see that Confucianism is founded (Gilgamesh!), and Oracle is build (probably used to bulb CoL for Gilly)

Now the barb wants to attack, great! He dies. And I slotted a Barracks in capitals queue to grow it to cap (switching tiles to a cottage to time the growth), since we are going to build another Settler:

Monty asks for OB and gets them (we can get Hinduism from him, plus relations):

Ramesses comes asking for OB but I decline. And I see this:

Have a good time, Ramesses

... And as predicted, Hindu spreads (to Satsuma which needs culture!):

We decide not to convert for now, since the Shaka-Gilly club seems to be the place to be

And now, there are some choices in the situation I've left here:

I suspect the barbie wants to kill the road. We could...
1: Move the Chariot to reach the barbie next turn,
2: Attack with the Warrior, and if we wound the Archer enough, attack out of the city. Else, 1.
3: Ignore it and hope he attacks either the Warrior or the Archer.

... And!

Kagoshima is up. 1 turn to Alphabet.

 

[shyuhe]

I just realized I'm confusing my SG's. I'm up in the other one, not this