You know , i would say the way you perceive things is an indicator of your sexual orientation
Three God Questions
- Thread starter LucyDuke
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You know , i would say the way you perceive things is an indicator of your sexual orientation
PeteAtoms
FormulaRandom
oh.. kids these days and there references to flaming phallic symbols, someone's been a bad boy!
The Bible's pretty symbolic. Waving around your "flaming sword" suggests something that occurs after your toe tapping has been affirmatively answered.
That could explain the freaks that think the teletubbies are gay.You know , i would say the way you perceive things is an indicator of your sexual orientation
1
What's up with people saying they're "doing the Lord's work"? Why can't the Lord do his own work? If he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why does he have fragile, fallible humans doing his work? Hell, why doesn't he do our work for a change, if he loves us so damn much?
2
People make a big deal out of him sending his only son to earth to die for our sins. (Because he loves us.) But if he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why didn't he have more sons? It's not like he had to convince anyone to sex him up. (Though I suppose that wouldn't be too difficult for God.)
3
Why was it necessary to crucify Jesus to forgive our sins? Why couldn't the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that God just forgive us because he chose to? That's how I forgive people. It should be especially easy if he loves us so much. And he's God. This crucify-my-son thing is presented as some kind of sacrifice, but I see no need for the sacrifice.
Good questions. While I do believe in God, I do not believe in any church doctrine.
@1: I believe God actually doesn't do any work.
@2: Jesus himself did not think he was The Son of God. Historically, that's a concept of Christian theology. (And Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian; Christianity didn't exist yet during his lifetime.)
@3: Dito. Ending with a poetic quote:
some say we are responsible
for those we love
others know we are responsible
for those who love us
Nikki Giovanni, The December of my springs*
*Quoted in Lorenzo Carcaterra, Gangster
thescaryworker
Builder
Very good questions and points.
A god would not do his own work because it would ruin the point of our existence: to grow, mature, and change with time. If a god did all of our work for us, we would have no chance to be "good".
However, they fail to understand that god didn't make all that much of a sacrifice as he was able to raise his son a few days later. But if they realised that it would kind of ruin the whole "he sacrificed his one and only son ..." aspect.
With the judeo-christian god, all "sin" must result in some kind of punishment. God "just forgiving" us would not be a fulfilment of justice. [thus ruining the main plot point of the Bible] So, instead, he appeases his own sense of justice while simultaneously removing the burden from all humans on earth.
Though I have to wonder why Christians wouldn't take a different stance on the matter of Jesus's crucifixion. They claim that it is a "gift" that is "free" for anyone. However, what they mean by "free" is similar to how "free" that new car is:
- Unwavering faith until you die
- 10% of your income ... or more ... for life
The rationalisation for "God works in mysterious ways" is this:
- God is so abstract that he exists outside our universe
- He exists outside of time and space (granting him the ability of omnipresence)
- He exists outside of any natural forces (allowing him omnipotence)
- He exists outside of logic (meaning that rational proofs against god's existence or anything he does are invalid, because they concern a being who exists outside of logic)
However, I believe this argument should be taken one step further:
- God exists outside of existence*. Thus, both atheists and theists are wrong, as god is in a state of simultaneous existence and non-existence at the same time.
*If god exists only inside of existence, then something would be bigger than himself and he would not be all-powerful.
People like being able to do something in the name of something they believe to be greater or higher than themselves. It inspires them to be better at what they are doing.1
What's up with people saying they're "doing the Lord's work"? Why can't the Lord do his own work? If he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why does he have fragile, fallible humans doing his work? Hell, why doesn't he do our work for a change, if he loves us so damn much?
A god would not do his own work because it would ruin the point of our existence: to grow, mature, and change with time. If a god did all of our work for us, we would have no chance to be "good".
Christians need a physical connection between themselves and their god because it makes it seem more real to them. It makes them think I would never give up my only son to die, that must be an awesome god!2
People make a big deal out of him sending his only son to earth to die for our sins. (Because he loves us.) But if he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why didn't he have more sons? It's not like he had to convince anyone to sex him up. (Though I suppose that wouldn't be too difficult for God.)
However, they fail to understand that god didn't make all that much of a sacrifice as he was able to raise his son a few days later. But if they realised that it would kind of ruin the whole "he sacrificed his one and only son ..." aspect.
Justice. (or at least, the judeo-christian god's sense of justice)3
Why was it necessary to crucify Jesus to forgive our sins? Why couldn't the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that God just forgive us because he chose to? That's how I forgive people. It should be especially easy if he loves us so much. And he's God. This crucify-my-son thing is presented as some kind of sacrifice, but I see no need for the sacrifice.
With the judeo-christian god, all "sin" must result in some kind of punishment. God "just forgiving" us would not be a fulfilment of justice. [thus ruining the main plot point of the Bible] So, instead, he appeases his own sense of justice while simultaneously removing the burden from all humans on earth.
Though I have to wonder why Christians wouldn't take a different stance on the matter of Jesus's crucifixion. They claim that it is a "gift" that is "free" for anyone. However, what they mean by "free" is similar to how "free" that new car is:
- Unwavering faith until you die
- 10% of your income ... or more ... for life
The rationalisation for "God works in mysterious ways" is this:
- God is so abstract that he exists outside our universe
- He exists outside of time and space (granting him the ability of omnipresence)
- He exists outside of any natural forces (allowing him omnipotence)
- He exists outside of logic (meaning that rational proofs against god's existence or anything he does are invalid, because they concern a being who exists outside of logic)
However, I believe this argument should be taken one step further:
- God exists outside of existence*. Thus, both atheists and theists are wrong, as god is in a state of simultaneous existence and non-existence at the same time.
*If god exists only inside of existence, then something would be bigger than himself and he would not be all-powerful.
lovett
Deity
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Could I ask, who made these divine laws?
holy king
Deity
go on, convince me even more that i'm the son of god.
Taras Bulba
gone
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that, I'd love to answer, but frankly, I don't know. I'll see if I can find anything on that, or hopefully someone will come along that has a better answer than myself for you
well... the thing is... Jesus is the only LITERAL son of God. He was born in the flesh to God. However, God is the father of all our spirits.
Not that that convinces you, its just what I imagine he meant by it
holy king
Deity
no, no, you got that wrong.
i'm supposed to be crazy and think of myself as the son of god.
Taras Bulba
gone
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oooh, haha, I'm sorry. I got it completely backwards... but then again.. its me... figures
classical_hero
In whom I trust
1
What's up with people saying they're "doing the Lord's work"? Why can't the Lord do his own work? If he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why does he have fragile, fallible humans doing his work? Hell, why doesn't he do our work for a change, if he loves us so damn much?
2
People make a big deal out of him sending his only son to earth to die for our sins. (Because he loves us.) But if he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why didn't he have more sons? It's not like he had to convince anyone to sex him up. (Though I suppose that wouldn't be too difficult for God.)
3
Why was it necessary to crucify Jesus to forgive our sins? Why couldn't the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that God just forgive us because he chose to? That's how I forgive people. It should be especially easy if he loves us so much. And he's God. This crucify-my-son thing is presented as some kind of sacrifice, but I see no need for the sacrifice.
I'm talking about the Jesus peoples' God. I don't believe such thing actually exists, I'd just like to know how people who do believe he exists reconcile these things. So anti-Jesus people, please don't troll this up before I get some feedback. Kthx.
And none of this "God works in mysterious ways" crap! That's a copout and you know it!
1, If you read the Bible, right from the start God had always used men to get what he wants done. God always has wanted fellowship with his creation. That is why he uses us, since he desires a personal relationship and for him to get one he needs to use those who already have one to get others to know him. Also if you love God, he will make things right for you. (Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.)
Well it is not so much what God can do for you, but what you can do for God, so to speak, since he has done everything for us. He will answer prayer if you call upon his name. Can you imagine a man dying for a good cause? Can you imagine someone dying for there most bitter enemy? We have seen plenty of cases of the former, but the Bible says that the only one who has ever died for people who opposed them and that is what Jesus did when he came to earth to die for our sins and in our place. By all rights God could have just started all over again and forced man to accept him, but out of love he sent his only son ro die for my and your sins. IF you want me to point you to some verses explaining that I can show hundreds of verses explaining why God came to earth and what he did for us. Once you realise that, you will no longer be asking why he is not doing anything for you, but you will want to praise him for he did for. When I wrote this I am reminded of this song we sing at Church.
2. iF the sacrifice of God himself did not satisfy the demands of god then nothing else will be able to save us from our sins and that would mean that we have no hope. Also you are forgetting that Jesus is God (John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. 2 The same in the beginning with God. 3 All things were created by him; and without him was not any thing that was made made. 4 In him was life: and the life was the light of men.) So if Jesus being God was not a suitable sacrifice then nothing would ever come up the standard required.
3. Well "without the shedding of blood, their is no remission of sins." Hebrews 9:22. The reason for Jesus' death is that the penalty of sin is death (Genesis 2:17b In the day that you eat of that tree, thou shalt surely die [or in the Hebrew, dying death, showing that it is both a process and final result, which is why we say that you either born once and die twice, or you are born twice and die once]) and the only way to overcome sin is by overcoming death. If you have someone who died for you and he takes away the penalty of sin by dying in your place, then that he must show that he has power over death by dying and rising again. (Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: and also read up 1 Corinthians 15, which talks about the resurrection of Jesus and how it show that he has overcome death, the last enemy. I said a bit earlier that you have choice between if you either die twice or a born twice. That is the thing Jesus told Nicodemus in John 3 that "ye must be born again".
Also there no such thing as God works in mysterious ways crap, God has actively made know his plan and why he did it. Ti is so clear that when you explain it to a young child they can understand is simply.
Ayatollah So
the spoof'll set you free
The mob boss who orders a hit and the wiseguy who carries it out are both fully responsible for the murder.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Well he does a terrible job of doing that since he fails to understand the penalty of sin problem that he seems to have n concept of, which is prominent throughout the Bible and he decides o go name calling instead when people to represent that view, which is certainly should be above a man of his stature. So I have to agree with Lucy that his answers are inconsistent, but it is not the best that the Theological world can offer
It suggests not only carnal action, but also infection. Since God and the angels are known to be close, we should be careful of God. Maybe there's some truth to the suggestion that humans can't survive proximity to God.
Are they? Isn't the mob boss responsible for incitement to murder, or some such offence?
Stolen Rutters
Deity
Well, to be honest, I find your answer little incomplete too, because it doesn't tell why the penalty of sin is death. Why couldn't God just forgive?
LesCanadiens
Deity
1
What's up with people saying they're "doing the Lord's work"? Why can't the Lord do his own work? If he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why does he have fragile, fallible humans doing his work? Hell, why doesn't he do our work for a change, if he loves us so damn much?
Why do people play games of chess? Instead of letting the pieces beat the other guy for you, why not just reach across the table and strangle him yourself?
2
People make a big deal out of him sending his only son to earth to die for our sins. (Because he loves us.) But if he's all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that, why didn't he have more sons? It's not like he had to convince anyone to sex him up. (Though I suppose that wouldn't be too difficult for God.)
One was all he needed.
3
Why was it necessary to crucify Jesus to forgive our sins? Why couldn't the all-powerful, all-mighty, all-that God just forgive us because he chose to? That's how I forgive people. It should be especially easy if he loves us so much. And he's God. This crucify-my-son thing is presented as some kind of sacrifice, but I see no need for the sacrifice.
Because before Jesus you were punished for your sins. Jesus was crucified so he could take your sins and the punishment they entailed onto himself and absolve you of said punishment.
Thread solved.
thescaryworker
Builder
Note that you still have to move the pieces, they will not move on their own.
The point is not how many sons God needed, but rather that "giving up his one and only son" is overrated.
But why were we punished? If God was going to forgive us anyway, why not just skip a few steps forgive Adam and Eve in the garden in the first place?
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
In the first draft of the OP I clarified that I meant Jesus as his only Jesus-type son. I probably shouldn't've edited it out.
Also I should've emphasized another question: What is "the Lord's work"?
And like I said to Mowque, I'm not looking for a fight. I don't intend to ridicule. I don't agree with any of these Jesus things, but I'm not going to be an ass about it. Don't blame me for the trolls; I asked them politely to shut up for a while.
@V
Not I, dear. There are not significant things that I accept without any explanation at all. (It can make life difficult. Oh well.) That's why, even though I'm not looking to subscribe to this particular set of beliefs, I'm curious about how people who do hold them explain them to themselves. If "we don't" is your answer, thanks for offering it.
@thescaryworker
Good answers, but I'm still not buying "God works in mysterious ways". If it's just that humans don't know why God does something (in their God-universe framework) they ought to just say "I don't know why". Having an understanding of the universe in which things cannot be explained doesn't sit well with me. It's cool if you don't know the answer, but don't tell me there is no answer. At the most extreme, God himself knows the answer.
Your post #39... good post.
@classical_hero re: Plotinus
Don't take this as an attack, but your Christianity is not the only Christianity. Perhaps the others are wrong, but I'm not playing favorites. His answers contain inconsistency, yours require faith. Neither particularly satisfy my curiousity.
Also I should've emphasized another question: What is "the Lord's work"?
And like I said to Mowque, I'm not looking for a fight. I don't intend to ridicule. I don't agree with any of these Jesus things, but I'm not going to be an ass about it. Don't blame me for the trolls; I asked them politely to shut up for a while.
@V
Not I, dear. There are not significant things that I accept without any explanation at all. (It can make life difficult. Oh well.) That's why, even though I'm not looking to subscribe to this particular set of beliefs, I'm curious about how people who do hold them explain them to themselves. If "we don't" is your answer, thanks for offering it.
@thescaryworker
Good answers, but I'm still not buying "God works in mysterious ways". If it's just that humans don't know why God does something (in their God-universe framework) they ought to just say "I don't know why". Having an understanding of the universe in which things cannot be explained doesn't sit well with me. It's cool if you don't know the answer, but don't tell me there is no answer. At the most extreme, God himself knows the answer.
Your post #39... good post.
@classical_hero re: Plotinus
Don't take this as an attack, but your Christianity is not the only Christianity. Perhaps the others are wrong, but I'm not playing favorites. His answers contain inconsistency, yours require faith. Neither particularly satisfy my curiousity.
